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Fistand Fistand
posted on Saturday, March 09 2013, 11:13 AM in Game Suggestions
Wild Fistand appears!
So, privet everyone again! I guess I should've gotten pretty irritating lately, appearing everywhere and criticizing almost everything. :D
This time I bring you yet another wall of text. (Seriously, by the time I'll be done writing this, it should get really big.)

This post contains almost everything (my memory fails me sometimes) I wanted to bring up about the new jobs - most of them were changed from their originally suggested versions, to various extents for various reasons. To some changes I agree, to some I do not.
(This is also a bug report of sorts.)
Alright, enough with my awkward attempt for an introduction! Behold the wall.
(Sentences in italic indicate optional suggestions.)



TEMPLAR

Torrent Slash 2
Optionally, give it +200/250/300/350/400 bonus hit chance on itself.

Shield Bash 3
Give it a ministun as mentioned in the tooltip.
It also should increase Magical Protection, but it doesn't probably due to insufficient space in the effects (afaik, any skill can only carry 3 effects)

Repentance
Change it's learning requirement to Righteous Strike only - some Templars might choose to specialize more in the offensive (right) branch, which Repentance fits.
Optionally, make it also decrease Attack Speed by 7/14/21% as a means of further suppressing the target.

Shield Throw 3
Remove the "interruption" from it, as it coupled with the slow's duration shuts down the target for 5s on a 7s CD. :)
Instead, make it slow down the target's Cast Speed (+15/25/35%) and All Attack (-4/8/12%)

Backtrack
A "giant leap" 1,5m of distance? You've got to be kidding me. >_>
Change it to at least 8m.

Radiance
Raise the absorption cap of it's invoked shield - it's a pretty powerful skill on a 20s CD, so why does it's shield have capacity of the mundane Shield Bash? :D 5/9/13K should do.
100% hit rate? This skill is intended to counter high-damage targets, and they usually stack evasion.

Brace
Increase the duration from 3s to 3/3.5/4s.
Change Phys Prot to All Prot.

Consecration
I still stand to my suggestion of making it a negative aura 6m of radius, slowing down targets affected by 5/10/15% and their attack speed by 2/4/6% and burning them 200/275/350 HP each second (cannot be active with Protective Posture 3, so it's a tradeoff). I do think that's technically possible.
If not - at least reduce the 20s CD to something like 20/18/15s.

Holy Protection
Isn't the HP cost a bit too harsh? Templars have no means of healing except through HW: Restore and every hitpoint matters for them, counting their shields.
Probably should lower it to something like 4/8/12K.
Also, as a "save me!" skill, it should possess larger range, like 20m.

Divine Intervention
Again, the HP cost is a bit too much (Immunity is still very powerful, however). 8/16K?
"People Applied to: All" Eh? It isn't even AOE to begin with. Tooltip bug?

Virtue
MAKE IT A LASTING BUFF. =_=
Seriously, why not? The skills it "unlocks" are mainly supportive in nature anyway.
If it still stays, make the Words actually require this buff in order to be cast (like Soul Blade skills)




CHAMPION

Wind Cleave 3
Why 10s cooldown? If need be, shorten the effect, but leave the 6~7s CD. D:

Shield Smash 3
Same as with Shield Throw - messed up with the interruption big time. :D
Remove Silence and return it it's old 7s CD and 10s duration as well.
Tooltip doesn't show the actual damage, too.

Shield Bash 3
CD: 7s > 6s, buff duration: 4s > 3s.
The reflection buff doesn't disappear after taking a hit. Intended?

Rotating Shield Bash 3
CD: 8s > 6s, buff duration: 4s > 3s.

Shield Throw 3
Essentially the same as with Templars' skill.

Funeral Bell
Should also slow Movement Speed.

Counter Sweep
Far as I've tested, it entirely blocks the next attack but somehow still deals reflection damage. Can't say if the amount is right, however...
Is that intended?
If not, leave as it is anyway because that's damn cool. Moreover, can that mechanic be implemented to other skills like [Rotating] Shield Bash and w/e else has reflection in it?

Lion's Roar
I suggest conical 5x9m area instead of the radial 4m one so you can actually "blow" enemies off teammates.
Tooltip doesn't show the amount of damage.

"Auras"
To clarify confusion, split them into three dichotomic skill pairs that override each other: Protective Posture/BA: Hawk, BA: Wolf/BA: Dragon and Body/Mind Fortification.
Posture/Hawk are auras, while Wolf/Dragon are party buffs and Body/Mind Forts are stances.
Raise the percentages on Fortifications because they still base off the basic stats.

Challenge
It's not a strike, it's a buff!
Change target type so it can be cast without a target.

Bear's Rage
Cleave component doesn't work. I doubt it works altogether, actually.

Turtle's Shell
Disables and heals yourself, but does not grant invincibility nor debuff immunity.

Guardian's Call
Wasn't it supposed to also immobilize self and pull enemies into melee range?



CRUSADER

Impregnable Cataclysm
Change target type from Self to Target (so that the AOE is around the target, not self).

Rend 3
CD: 9s > 7,5s
Crusaders need to consistently reapply their DoTs, which is why the cooldown of a DoT skill should not equal/exceed it's duration.
(The difference between duration and CD should be at least 2s.)

Whirlwind 3
Heal Received: -10% > -25%
The DoT is short-timed and has a comparatively large CD, so it's heal-denial component should be stronger.

Dissection
CD: 14s > 12s, duration: 10s > 14s
Crusaders need to consistently reapply their DoTs, which is why the cooldown of a DoT skill should not equal/exceed it's duration.
(The difference between duration and CD should be at least 2s.)

Mangle
I suggest to also add -4/7/10% Lifesteal on target (so as to diminish healing done by it as well)
Tooltip's still bugged for me. Was it fixed?

Open Wounds
Change 4/9/14% Lifesteal on self to 3/6/9% Life Tap on target.
I do not suggest to change CD here since it's not a DoT and Life Tap is pretty powerful in PvE

Coup de Grace
In order for it to be an actual "fatality" skill, I offer to add 13/17/21% HP damage to it but lengthen the CD to 1m.
Meaning: applies a .5s stun, during which the target suffers a [after 0,5s, HP -13/17/21%] debuff, killing it instantly if it has insufficient HP.

Exposure
CD: 12s > 9s
The same reason as with DoTs.

Skill Paralysis 2
Tooltip doesn't show the effect.

Blood Congeal
Stuns yourself but does not drain any HP whatsoever (does stun and drain it from targets however)

Vampiric Curse
The Lifesteal percent is way too large - resulting in more of a beneficial buff than a curse.
Reduce from 35/25% to 18/10%.
Lower cooldown to 30s? This is a very situational skill and 1m is too large for it.
-HPregen is also based off of base stats, so might as well change it to -10000 instead of percentage.

Also:
I beg for the return of Blood Coagulation. I do not know why it was removed, but it was one of the main skills Crusader gameplay was centered around.

Blood Coagulation
Range: 8m
Using powerful incantations you solidify your enemy's blood (DoT on target required), stopping bleeding but constraining his movements (3s Stun + DoT Immunity) and dealing 120% Physical damage (50% ITD). (36s CD)

Having a reliable stun was actually one of the main differences between Crusaders and Vanquishers. It does, however, have drawbacks - namely, DoT immunity on target for the duration, so care not to blow, say, Rupture into it :p
It also breaks all existing DoTs on target, so decisive use is advised.




VANQUISHER
Surprisingly low amount of complaints.

Hurricane 2
Change target type to Self? The description assumes it's "around you"

Celestial Slaughter
From my tests, strikes from Celestial Slaughter deal strangely low damage (lower than my autoattack!)
Could that somehow be linked to it being a magic skill and supposedly dealing magic damage?
Also, Ritual of Divinity buff has a grey square as a buff icon. Bug?

Demoralize
3m radius? It's an area-debuff, so it's radius should at least match that of Skill Paralysis (7m).

Cleave
Has no effect whatsoever, sadly. Should probably be replaced.

Duel
It's hard to tell since Duel does not show it's effect in the tooltip (bug?), but:
Is Heal Received reduction -100%? If yes, it probably should be changed to -100000 so absolutely no outside healing comes through.
(I am however not sure how % Heal Reduction works, so it might not be worth the trouble.)



SOUL BLADER

Annihilate 3
100% hit? Almost all "finisher" skills on all classes have that.

Tempest Slice
Must be a confusion here...
First, Tempest Slice is a skill in the Fighter tree; thus this is an improvement (Tempest Slice 2)
Second, it should share CD with it's other version accordingly.
Third, it's not a melee skill ("...binds an enemy to the ground from a distance"), it's range is 10m.

Mass Subdue
Being a mass debuff, it's radius should be larger than it is now (typically ~7m)

SB:Omen/Abyss
Aside from the names, they are entirely identical is description and effect (originally this effect belonged to Omen)
I remind Abyss' effect:
8m range.
Your weapons' spectral forces paralyze your target, causing 120/125/130% Physical damage and a 1,5/2/2,5s Stun. (7s CD, shares with Soul Blade: Omen)

Must be an oversight?

SB: Promise/Ruin
I think I've already said that: they have been swapped places for no apparent reason - Promise belongs to the right branch and Ruin to the central one.

SB: Flash/Promise
Being improved versions of Final Flash/Promise 2, they should share CD with them and each other accordingly.

SB: Execute
Similar to Crusaders' Coup de Grace, I suggest to add Execute 14/21% HP damage.
Same debuff mechanics as with Coup de Grace.

Purification
Yes, it's a Mercenary skill.
Just thought I'd like to point out that it is utterly useless in it's current form. Probably should be changed to 1% HP regen every 3s?
Might extend the duration (5min?), as well.



MYRMIDON
PLEASE, do something with animations sometime. A single double-spinning-slash animation for ALL the skills is kinda...meh.

Stances
Since it appears the percentages didn't quite work out, I suggest to change the values and/or effects of the stances.
Tiger Stance: Physical Attack +2000/3000/4000/5000, Physical Defense Penetration +5/10/15/20%, Damage Absorption -4/7/11/15%.
Dragon Stance: All Defense +11K/14K/17K/20K, Damage Absorption +4/8/12/16%, Movement Speed -7/10/12/15%.
Phoenix Stance: Magic Attack +6K/8K/10K/12K, Magic Hit +1000/1500/2000/2500, Physical Skill Paralysis.
(Inb4 "why so much on Phoenix Stance": because it shuts down all Physical skills and because Myrmidon aren't magic classes: they don't even have any 'base' M.Atk to begin with.)
Also, remove animation times from them.

Death's Grasp 2
CD: 12s > 7s (low CD skills is the core of Myrmidons' gameplay)
Replace interruption with ministun.

Burst of Speed
Remove "animation" time from it (instacast).
CD: 20s > 20/18/15s.

Dragon's Fortitude
Make this buff 2/3/4 efficiency and give it Debuff Immunity (it will deflect lesser debuffs, but will still pass against 5+ eff. ones.)

Hemorrhage 2
Instead of granting 7/10/12/15% Lifesteal to caster, make it Life Tap the target by 4/6/8/10%.
duration: 3s > 4s.

Rising Stream Strike
As the name suggests, correct the typo. :D
CD: 15s > 12s

Spiked Scales
Remove animation time from it (insta-cast)
CD: 20s > 20/18/15s

Phoenix Strike
To compliment boosting A.Spd, remove the CD from it.

Phoenix' Fervor
The buff is too little to be compared to other stances' ones.
MP Absorption: 1/2/3% > 7/14/21%; Max MP: 5/10/15% > 30/50/70%; Max HP: +20/30/40%
(It's still not too useful to other stances, but it goes a big way towards durability with Pyroshell.)

Pyroshell
Raise the efficiency? (110/130%)

Also:
I once again suggest granting some dual swords (Myrmidon-restricted) magic attack values, like on staves and such.
Since Phoenix Stance will most likely be on weapon swap (if at all) for most Myrmidons, alternative weapon sets with magic attack would make Phoenix Stance actually viable. Might as well sacrifice some Physical attack on weapons for that.



For now, that's it.
More classes will be added as soon as I test them thoroughly; I will either create more threads or just update this one.
[i]Kudos to everyone who has made it through to this sentence - a personal [b]
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Responses (7)
  • Accepted Answer

    Wadi Wadi
    replied on Saturday, March 09 2013, 11:19 AM #Permalink
    My suggestion: give us 3x more hp so PvP will not be like 2-3 hits and done. At the moment I don't see point going to BF, 2 hits I'm dead, 2 hits I killed someone.
    Every class got much more damage than before but same hp. Sigh.
      Reply 
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Sedy Admin Sedy
    replied on Saturday, March 09 2013, 06:40 PM #Permalink
    Thanks for this, I have been through and fixed a lot of stuff but I don't really have the time to reply to everything right now, busy this weekend with rl stuff :)

    A lot of it makes sense but if I told you before that I wouldn't make a certain skill either because it wasn't possible or because I didn't want it, that still stands really. For example, Blood Coagulation is not doable at all so it was left out.

    The only major job changes/suggestions I disagree with are for the Myrmidon. The stances are fine as they are. They shouldn't be buffing so much, that is what gear is for. The only one that is different is Phoenix, since it's needed for the magic buffs and those Phoenix skills should not be THAT strong anyway since they are all AoE with fairly short cooldowns.

    I also disagree about the Crusader dots needing cooldown reductions or debuff increases because those debuffs aren't just dots, they have other elements too which would become overpowered if extended. Some are already 10s long with slows and stuff in them.

    Guaranteed hit skills should be used sparingly. We already have issues with ridiculous amounts of hit on most jobs, don't wan't to make it even worse for the evasion classes.

    Life tap on targets I don't want to go near outside of the healing classes. Prophet has one and that is where it should remain really. I don't want melee being able to apply life taps to a target and heal the entire party/battleground.

    Heal reduction I have to be careful with because I'm not sure what is going to happen if somebody goes negative. I really need to test it properly before making any changes. Also, if you have a skill that reduces all healing to nothing, I don't think HP absorb works at all. When I was making that skill, Vampiric Curse, if you removed all healing the HP absorb stopped working so the opponent couldn't heal at all, from anything. That is why it's at -70% heal with a higher absorb rate. I will test it again anyway and see.

    Animations and effects are being put in slowly since it's time consuming. I did a bunch for yesterday's update and will do more as time permits.
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Kage Kage
    replied on Sunday, March 10 2013, 02:09 AM #Permalink
    Templar perspective:

    Holy Protection
    Isn't the HP cost a bit too harsh? Templars have no means of healing except through HW: Restore and every hitpoint matters for them, counting their shields.
    Probably should lower it to something like 4/8/12K.
    Also, as a "save me!" skill, it should possess larger range, like 20m.

    Divine Intervention
    Again, the HP cost is a bit too much (Immunity is still very powerful, however). 8/16K?
    "People Applied to: All" Eh? It isn't even AOE to begin with. Tooltip bug?


    I haven't learned either of these skills and do not currently plan to either. I wasn't going to mention it or give advice on it, not really my place. I will say though, because Divine Intervention basically takes about 1/3-1/2 of my hp to use, I don't personally feel it's worth learning. Others may find it worth it, particularly immunity is very useful, but for 3 seconds, half my hp seems too harsh (i'm kind of a low HP tank @ 72-76k.. used to be made fun of for it, lol). I'm not giving any advice on them though, some may find it worth it for those costs, just my personal viewpoint on why i'm not learning them.

    I actually haven't learned a lot of skills yet because i'm out of SP, but I already know I can free up a good amount through reskilling, once I do, I'll be able to try out/give feedback on a few more skills that I do decide to learn.
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Fistand Fistand
    replied on Sunday, March 10 2013, 07:12 AM #Permalink
    About Myrmidons - I still state my opinion on Phoenix Stance: all it's positive sides - AOE damage, crowdcontrol, synergy with magic classes, etc etc - are outweighed by just one thing: it's MAGIC.
    For Myrmidons this means:
    1) somewhat fixed damage from Phoenix skills, because accessories don't really help and there are no weapons with M. Atk values (there should be! =_=)
    2) inability to penetrate magic defenses except with Backdraft
    3) the need to stack Magic Hit, unless Phoenix Stance will be changed to buff it more
    4) Phoenix, unlike Tiger/Dragon, cannot really rely on Barbarian's/other stance's skills because Skill Paralysis shuts them down
    5) etc.
    I just really really really want Phoenix Stance to become a viable option for building a Myrmidon. (Hell, I'll personally create and level one and build him into magic damage should that be done.) Right now it seems like more of a supportive stance - and just like with Soul Bladers' former *coughtacticscough* skill tree, I doubt any Myrmidon wants to be support-oriented.
    TL;DR - buff Phoenix Stance and create some magic accessories/weapons for it.
    /end of rant
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Sedy Admin Sedy
    replied on Sunday, March 10 2013, 12:59 PM #Permalink
    I MIGHT add some weapons with magic attack at a later date but right now they can already deal a lot of damage, at least in PvE, with the Phoenix skills. Also, it doesn't actually disable physical skills from the Barbarian tree, only new ones from Myrmidon.

    The mana return was scaled right back because it was ridiculously high since these attacks are all AoE, mana was at 100% all the time with just a few mobs. I know you envisioned it as a way to use the mana shield but they would be able to go out of mana, switch to Phoenix stance for a few seconds and be at 100% again.

    I have been playing Myrmidon myself so I know how it plays out and it's already a massive improvement over the Barbarian. Lets wait for some player feedback anyway.
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Fistand Fistand
    replied on Sunday, March 10 2013, 01:18 PM #Permalink
    (totally forgot I was going to say something on other points too, ranting ftw)
    Crusader skills - far as I've seen, the only thing they have other than actual DoTs is heal reduction (plus -hit on Rend and -cast on Mangle). I don't think that would be OP if extended; in the end, healers have Dispel for that (and Mangle is undispellable anyway)
    Life Tap? It's just your regular Lifesteal, reversed - for this reason it generally stays at around 10% (because it effects everyone attacking the target). It's not that high, and only certain classes can use that (healers/tanks can't quite heal from it).
    100% hit skills: those are usually "finisher" skills that can't afford to miss or those that specifically counter high-evasion targets - either of the types usually have a large CD.
    ['sides, it's about time Evasion's reign is over; at least something should prevent mindlessly stacking it.]
    And well, I haven't got to test Heal Reduction yet, so - does it reduce ALL incoming healing including Lifesteal, heal-over-time effects, potions, weapon/armor invokes, HP regeneration, etc.? (Can this effect work vice-versa?)
    [If yes, I agree Crusader debuffs should be left unchanged]
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Sedy Admin Sedy
    replied on Sunday, March 10 2013, 08:57 PM #Permalink
    I'm just really against any skills that provide something for nothing, something that should be gained through the right gear and the right choice of enhancements/cards, allowing the stacking of something else because they don't need to bother. Hit rate is already a problem with the plate and cloth classes and takes a lot of evasion stacking to counter it, which in turn causes low damage issues on the mail classes because they feel the need to stack evasion so high. I will probably even remove some of these guaranteed hit components of some new skills. If you want it to hit, make sure you have enough of the hit stat.

    Not sure why you say "evasions reign" since it was never really effective. Maybe at lower levels but not at 75+.

    I can't answer your question about heal reduction until I get some time to test it fully and find out for myself.
    Reply voted down Show
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