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Okay this post is just going to compare the new skills that Prophet and Saints have, and to help even them out, because how they are at the moment is too unbalanced.
-MP Circle VS. MP Shield
This MP circle for Prophets can make Prophet absolutely unbeatable. A Prophet can just sit in this circle 24/7 regaining 15% of MP every 3 seconds and a shield too, and when it runs out (after 30 seconds) they can use it right away again since the CD is 30 seconds. While a Saint has Mana Drain.. Saints can take a Prophets MP all we want but if a prophet sit in this circle saints can't do anything to help any of our party members kill it. Prophets are sitting in an unbeatable MP world. The MP shield on the Prophet Circle needs to be removed from the circle, and something added to saints. A Saint also has a Mana Shield, but it's just like Niria trans, which Prophet can use too, heck anyone can use Niria, so Saints Mana Shield really is just useless when we can get it from a trans. Maybe you could add a % of Mp regen to the mp shield? Maybe 5%/10%/15% every 3 secs? It's unfair that Prophets can sit in a circle, while Saints are using up all their MP pots :P
-Absorption (Prophet) VS. Protective Shields (Saint)
Saints only have a "Protective" shield, that really doesn't do any protection. It protects a saint from 20,000 damage, while we are getting hit for more than that in a single hit (prophets also have this). But Prophets have the Grace Skill (with no added side effects), while Saints have this god-awful absorb skill (Infuse). I personally am not wasting SP points on it because it doesn't save me, nor any of my party members, I've tried it and it drains Saints MP completely, slows us down, and silences us. Why do Saints get bombarded with all these negative effects on a skill that's supposed to save someone? It'll kill a saint if anything. But a Prophet can sit all pretty and use Grace with no negative effects, and they have a shield. Any shield that a prophet has should be removed, because Grace and immunity from circles is enough for prophets. And Priests 'Cognitive Shield' should get an upgrade in the Saints section, maybe 30k/40k/50k damage protection and layers could be about 7/8/9?
-Circles VS. Debuffing
For saints when we're stunned, we can't debuff ourself nor any party members. Yes we can use ailment, and debuffing pots, but when they are on cd it's useless, and a Prophet doesn't need ailment when they can just sit in their circle. Kinda unfair. So saints sit there feeling useless. While a sage can put up a circle and everyone can get in it and be protected. Now, for Saints we are known for our higher healing, while sages are known for circles. But then why does a sage get a circle that increases healing (Devine Sanctuary 2)? It makes them even, actually better than Saints. Priests get a skill, Light Healing, which gives Healing Received +28%. But, Prophets get a circle that gives 20% Healing Received? That just makes Prophets even more OP. Saints need to get a Light Healing 2, maybe 32%/36%/40% Our Healing after this 3rd update is the same, but Prophets get more. This makes things unfair, saints dont have all those cool healing over times as sage does that's why it was implanted for it to heal more than prophets and here you make them with even more heals.
I got the help from prophet to test skills and tested them in battlefield with actual combat from different classes. Anyways, kudos if you actually read all of this. I'll add more later if I notice anything else. :3
-MP Circle VS. MP Shield
This MP circle for Prophets can make Prophet absolutely unbeatable. A Prophet can just sit in this circle 24/7 regaining 15% of MP every 3 seconds and a shield too, and when it runs out (after 30 seconds) they can use it right away again since the CD is 30 seconds. While a Saint has Mana Drain.. Saints can take a Prophets MP all we want but if a prophet sit in this circle saints can't do anything to help any of our party members kill it. Prophets are sitting in an unbeatable MP world. The MP shield on the Prophet Circle needs to be removed from the circle, and something added to saints. A Saint also has a Mana Shield, but it's just like Niria trans, which Prophet can use too, heck anyone can use Niria, so Saints Mana Shield really is just useless when we can get it from a trans. Maybe you could add a % of Mp regen to the mp shield? Maybe 5%/10%/15% every 3 secs? It's unfair that Prophets can sit in a circle, while Saints are using up all their MP pots :P
-Absorption (Prophet) VS. Protective Shields (Saint)
Saints only have a "Protective" shield, that really doesn't do any protection. It protects a saint from 20,000 damage, while we are getting hit for more than that in a single hit (prophets also have this). But Prophets have the Grace Skill (with no added side effects), while Saints have this god-awful absorb skill (Infuse). I personally am not wasting SP points on it because it doesn't save me, nor any of my party members, I've tried it and it drains Saints MP completely, slows us down, and silences us. Why do Saints get bombarded with all these negative effects on a skill that's supposed to save someone? It'll kill a saint if anything. But a Prophet can sit all pretty and use Grace with no negative effects, and they have a shield. Any shield that a prophet has should be removed, because Grace and immunity from circles is enough for prophets. And Priests 'Cognitive Shield' should get an upgrade in the Saints section, maybe 30k/40k/50k damage protection and layers could be about 7/8/9?
-Circles VS. Debuffing
For saints when we're stunned, we can't debuff ourself nor any party members. Yes we can use ailment, and debuffing pots, but when they are on cd it's useless, and a Prophet doesn't need ailment when they can just sit in their circle. Kinda unfair. So saints sit there feeling useless. While a sage can put up a circle and everyone can get in it and be protected. Now, for Saints we are known for our higher healing, while sages are known for circles. But then why does a sage get a circle that increases healing (Devine Sanctuary 2)? It makes them even, actually better than Saints. Priests get a skill, Light Healing, which gives Healing Received +28%. But, Prophets get a circle that gives 20% Healing Received? That just makes Prophets even more OP. Saints need to get a Light Healing 2, maybe 32%/36%/40% Our Healing after this 3rd update is the same, but Prophets get more. This makes things unfair, saints dont have all those cool healing over times as sage does that's why it was implanted for it to heal more than prophets and here you make them with even more heals.
I got the help from prophet to test skills and tested them in battlefield with actual combat from different classes. Anyways, kudos if you actually read all of this. I'll add more later if I notice anything else. :3
Responses (60)
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Accepted Answer
More suggestions for Saints:
-How about an Aoe Shield? It can act like a normal aoe heal, but it'll put a shield on the party members that get in the AOE Heal. Maybe 80k/90k/100k damage protection. We got a new AOE heal for 3rd job, maybe can add it to that?
-How about some poison debuffs? So that Prophets can actually use their Poison circles (I never see them use them in BFs).
-For the rope, magic reflect doesn't really benefit healers. Sorcs get -cast time, attack and attack speed, all benefiting them. It's a party rope yes, but magic reflect isn't really wanted by many people. Maybe a HP% or something that would be useful to healers? -
Accepted Answer
Ideas that id like to see Saints get~ (stolen from dota 8D)
Shallow Grave - Targeted hero's HP won't go lower than 1 for spell duration. (Replace Infuse)
Aphotic Shield - Summons dark energies around an ally unit, creating a shield that absorbs a set amount of damage before expiring. When the shield is destroyed it will deal damage equal to the amount it absorbed to an area around it. Removes certain types of negative buffs on cast. Lasts for 15 seconds or until it bursts. (Replace Intervention)
Borrow Time - When activated, most negative buffs will be removed and any damage you take will heal you instead of damage you. If the ability is not in cooldown, it will passively activate when your hitpoints drop below 400 hp. (Replace Mana Shield)
At least to me Saints/Priest are known for their burst instant heals, prophets imo should not obtain the % healing received. -
Accepted Answer
- How about saints having instead of single target debuff it'll be an AoE/rope or w/e debuff within a limited radius (of course, if a pt member is out of radius, he won't get a debuff removal) even if you only debuff a single target from your pt. same radius from prophet's circle, maybe?
- The Prophet's Abs rope helps a LOT compared to Saint's reflect. :/ Like what Eevee said--why not instead of reflect, make it +hp% , -casting, All Def% or additional all stat rope for Saints? +MS seems good too.
- And about Saint's shield... What if after the shield breaks, it'll throw in a damage reflect like 50% back to the hitter? Or prolly stun the hitter for 1-2 sec? or knock-back the hitter for 8 meters?
- Or like, give Saints a "Come over here!" skill. The Saint will heal a player then right after it gets healed, the player will be pulled either close or beside the Saint?
Idk, i'm just throwing out opinions/suggestions that i think would benefit hitters and something that would be useful in PvP as well. -
Accepted Answer
My thoughts exactly! QQ I was planning to change job into a prophet for good, but I guess I have to wait. because basically prophet can survive longer in BF and PVP than Saint. but then compared to prophets, Saints have higher heals which is useful in dungeons and... somehow in pvp and bf. oh, and also, Saints have more support buffs which is also useful for our party members. (correct me if I'm wrong) so it's actually high heals vs longer survivability (ever since). to add, I observed that Prophets have damage abs rope, while Saint has reflect rope. these skills are like the identifier of the two; where in we, players, could choose from. (I was just stating the obvious traits and differences of the two class, so people won't get confused.)
however, on our part, we could really use some effective shields like those of a prophet. I would really like to see an improvement on our Mana Shield skill. a Mana regen improvement also would be nice. to others, in suggesting new skills, don't forget about the unique traits of each class, for less QQ.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaand NORAAAAAA, good jobbb! -
Accepted Answer
I'm going to repost part of an earlier post I did way back in October. With some edits/additions to reflect current status.
Priest:
Unique points in retail were : instant heal + high heal due to light healing. At that time, priests are favored due to 2 instant heals + 1 instant AOE heal ( in NS instant heals are no longer a unique point for priests.Now instant casting is nothing special. In fact, with nimble cards, sages easily reach a zero cast time than priests due to their -casting buff
-All spells are instant if priests/sages are fully buffed
-Advantage to sage due to their -casting buff. If die, just need to rebuff rather than refood/retarot to achieve that instant
-Given the same food/tarot, sage can remove some of their nimble cards and replace with all stat: means they can get a higher base heal than priest (excluding light healing) from their equipment
Moving on to high heal - this is mainly due to Light Healing-this is a single target heal. awesome if it's for pve, since you are pretty much healing the tank only (assuming the rest of your party doesn't have melee that are squishy)
-in pvp, this is not practical for pvp in groups.
-you may be need to toss one heal each on multiple people -> only one person gets the effect of higher heal
-after you do so, everything is in cd and you are left with advanced rescue
[suggestion] make light healing buff affect the caster's heal amount, not the recipient of the heal i.e. while light healing effect is on, even if change target the heal will still be higher
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[suggestion] increase the speed of spirit step buff, to let us run away (reason: originally this was meant to give priests a noticeable boost in speed. NS iris has a lot more % speed buffs than retail on the costumes, so most people already have a nice boost in speed. )
...
Previously I suggested shield being raised to 20k because otherwise the 6.7k is getting one-hit away. Unfortunately with the new damage levels, we're stuck in the same position of shield not being that useful again.
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Other comments were: "...priests are not supposed to die to a single dps. If this were possible, then doesn't it mean that they would just die to the first person to select them as a target? Making them useless.
,,,priests have mainly single target heals. If they are occupied with keeping themself alive, their function as a healer for the party is effectively crippled. Which would be a success for that dpser. " -
Accepted Answer
Now, comments on the points in this thread:
1) Circle vs debuffing
adv of circle: do not get stunned/silence in the first place, so IF you know it's going to be external silence eg lizard, you put up circle. whereas if it's a priest, you can't really prevent anything from happening, because you don't have a debuff immunity skill (which would be awesome to have..)
disadv of circle: you can't run to the rescue of your teammates who are far away. you can't prevent all debuffs, only one type. so if eg a warlock is using lizard on you, and you put up external, you can get ITD'd instead. So you have to choose, whereas a priest can debuff that pyre debuff on the run.
overall: that's pretty normal in terms of the mechanics against you. Sages are stronger in terms of prevention, but priests are more versatile.
2) MP circle vs shield
Sorry, still think MP shield is useless, though there's nothing stopping anyone from niria-ing if they like it. the thing is, we're magic classes. once we run out of mp, we're sitting ducks! and that happens so fast it's ridiculous. if I have 60k mana, that can be gone in 3 hits with me not even using skills. then once it's gone, I have to be able to click on my mana pots BEFORE my hp is gone in the next 3 hits. And even after clicking on those pots, I still have to heal myself/run away. If I heal myself with the new skills, poof there goes the mana I just potted for.
MP circle: I think you just tweaked those values so we'll see how the MP regen balances with the damages. I'm not sure I like the automatic MP shield though. eg in the case above: if my mana was just gone, and I potted mana so I can continue to heal myself, but MP shield kicks in, so the next time they hit me, they take that mana again, I'm going to be a sitting duck cos every hit will deplete any mana I gain, so I can't heal myself because the mp will be gone again. -
Accepted Answer
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Accepted Answer
I've played a priest for almost 2 full years since the game 'Iris-online" was released from cbt-obt-game and came to this server, And I totally agree with that post. Atm Im playing a merc and ye even all the cool skills I have and from what my friends have, we simply cant touch prophet almost at all, as for saints Im really disappointed they were the weaker healing class before with only more healing amount and now even that is taken from them and prophets get upgraded even more then its op-ness from before.
Please read carefully, think deep and trough on what is written. -
Accepted Answer
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Accepted Answer
The idea of healer not being an easy target clearly didn't apply for saint. When it comes to pvp (which I do a lot because of boredom), the prophet can just stay in 1 place tanking a whole barrage of people while in saint's case they just plank so easily. That's my experience playing on Iris retail and Iris no-scrubs for the last 2 years. Sedy should really consider the idea of this post. -
Accepted Answer
.... just wanna say, sure prophets has longer survival rate in pvp than saints, and saints has higher healing than prophets, but since everyone has stun, sleep, and silence and a skill that -def making healers squishy.. if they gang on healers (as they always do) the healer sure plank >.< and once the healer die, everyone dies..
suggestion: make every class balance
thank you
p.s pvp in lvl 85 is a pain whether a prophet or a saint >. -
Accepted Answer
I agree to this shield thing for saints. It's really useless coz when a saint uses it there is no protection at all, 20k damage is like half a hit for some peple xD maybe instead of a fixed amount of damage, add like some kind of immunity to it? either a debuff immunity and 6 hit protection (no matter what the damage is) ? -
Accepted Answer
Bruie I'd like you to not mess with peoples post. They have all the right to do it, okay? There's nothing wrong with her post. She's concerned for her class. And she put a good explanation on her skills. Since she does play this class and has been and has made her first suggestive fix on her class -
Accepted Answer
Ok, ok....now ima answer on this too....
Just so uk, i played a sage on retail for long time...and im playing my sage/prophet here since a while already.
1) i agree, that an mp-shiel of 100% is .... a bit over the top ? xD
2) sure we have grace BUt u have an additional buff (pyre/earthen)... i can use grace only with a cd on the skill, but u can use ur additional buff all the time....whats with that?
3) circles-debuffing
pro circles: it stays long and u cant get a debuff when ur in the circle
con circles: when u put the circle..... let it be the red one....u ONLY can be saved from "red" uhm...atacks/debuffs....so, if u put the red circle...and u get other stuns/debuffs....ur still vulnarable
as a priest u can use ur skill all the time on partymembers (so not when ur stunned, I KNOW this)
4) priests heal is still way higher
5) life font: most useless skill ever~sure its nice to gte this 5% hp BUUUUUUUUUT this i cant cancel the skill until my mana is completely drained~ so i NEED to use the mana circle all the time (or in fights my party is dead)..... that renders the other circles useless again
5) sometimes i thinkppl forget this game isnt ALL about pvp/pve....
6) priests have 2 revives...... sage only 1....and ethe 1 we have only revives with low hp/no mp.....
7) after new classes were implemented.... the grounds stayed longer then the cooldowntime was
thats was removed with some patch....i wont complain about that...but: y are there even grounds on prophet then? as i see it atm, theres no difference to sage gorunds, so 3 wasted skillpoints
8) i still remember people telling me AFTER the update "how much better a saint is for pvp, compared to a prophet"... whats with that now? :P
9) final point: i truely think, that classes got "confused up" with new (3. skills)... idk.... my assasin has 2 range skills now...a half-assed aoe....n srysly...kinda too many new skills to even bother with
MY SKILL-Shortcuts aren't way enough anymore >_<
thats my opinion~ kill me, kiss me....i dun care xD -
Accepted Answer
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Accepted Answer
Still u gain an abs skill. I do understand that it is not a good skill with all of those negative effect. However u know that having it is better than nothing + 15% reflect magic basically is ur 15% abs after Def/real abs occur. Believe it or not the majority of Iris play magic class. Imagine ur 15% reflect (with free 15% abs go on and on and on as a rope? how do you feel? given Reflect > abs due to the fact it deal dmg back as well as reduce dmg).
As for drain skill you can hmm pot up/ for other effect Idk
you just deal with it haha (I believe it is just an oh shit skill to save your butt when you are ganged). Not a Saint but im just saying. -
Accepted Answer
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Accepted Answer
...... I love this.
But it poses me this question --- Where the hell do I get skill points for this shite DX!!! HAHAHA -
Accepted Answer
I'm still not sure about the added range yet, I think it might be enough to just reduce the cooldown/duration. I'm having a bit of a problem with the models/textures size too so may drop the range anyway. -
Accepted Answer
Ah don't worry too much about skill points. I will introduce the new CQs soon and I will probably add SP as part of the quest rewards.
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