Question o/ who's whining about reflect?

This is in response to what was posed on the crusader update post... okay i'll go over it all

Reflect: Reflect bases it damage off how much You get hit for. and your current ABS. that being said if you have only 5% abs you're taking 95% damage from that skill. Now let's say the champ is "smart" uses food to shrink his size. lets a mage hit him. his setup is p def, not M def and he's using a p def chest piece. That means he's getting hit with the FULL blunt of the attack. He pops all reflect skills WHICH can equal up to 200% reflect. I've played close to every class, i know a lot about em, Now... do the math. a p defense setup means less M def. Not much Magical Damage abs. this means the caster is being hit with 200% of that skills attacks PLUS the weakened % of what the champ DOES NOT have up, and that's the LOW end. the higher end is the champ is really freaking smart and chains their reflect to make it last longer instead of popping it all up together. if you're small you won't see the reflect go up that quickly.

The same can be said for physical with a magical def/damage abs champ vs a vanquisher.

TLR? If you know what you're doing and you play rather smart and out think your enemy. yeah reflect is a monster with weakened abs.

No one goes around playing that way? Really I know 3 champs that have and i've seen all 3 win BFs that way. Maybe that's just me and maybe the g casters they killed were just noobs then.


I've seen everything from Wiz, to sorcs, to even Vanquishers taken out this way. The results speak for themself.


Also you gotta factor in the other persons ABS. they can't nullfy the damage from reflect with weakened abs as it is now. so yes reflect is strong.

Pets: Do you play with pets? Do you seriously play with pets? Cause unless you invest time and money into them, they aren't that great. Yes my pets can easily tank attacks and have nice debuffs. but i have them end geared. Who on the server has full all stat VI full VI armored, complete rank 10 pet skilled and 100% tonic pets? Cause... i don't know if there is more than 10 people that have that... maybe i'm wrong? But if pets are as "strong" as you say they are... why does no one use them in BF? I've rarely seen them.

You said in the other topic it was "Miss piggy" which is a midnight boar pet. you know why it was used? Not cause the thing was strong, it's a tanker style pet. IE it has low attack. It was used cause it has a -def uni skill. I"ve seen that thing die so many times when that player was around. Pets also can be wiped out by AOEs in a blink of an eye.


is there anything i missed?

Mythos wrote:
Pets: Do you play with pets? Do you seriously play with pets? Cause unless you invest time and money into them, they aren't that great. Yes my pets can easily tank attacks and have nice debuffs. but i have them end geared. Who on the server has full all stat VI full VI armored, complete rank 10 pet skilled and 100% tonic pets? Cause... i don't know if there is more than 10 people that have that... maybe i'm wrong? But if pets are as "strong" as you say they are... why does no one use them in BF? I've rarely seen them.

Because people who love to use pets dont go BF~ Waste the tear food man lol
I'd want a Stat VI pet *bats eyes* Hi Pls sponsor me. *dies of laughter*

yeah reflect is a monster with weakened abs.

yes and so is everything else on game ppl with attack are monster, ppl with allstats are monster, ppl with wing are monster, bosses are monster, everthing is monster cause absorb is gone.

Reflect: Reflect bases it damage off how much You get hit for. and your current ABS. that being said if you have only 5% abs you're taking 95% damage from that skill.

This is poor example because so does every attack in the game.
Unless u are made of paper your character should withstand an attack.
This is like saying absorb is gone lets nerf everyones attack now.

That means he's getting hit with the FULL blunt of the attack. He pops all reflect skills WHICH can equal up to 200% reflect

First again this is bad example the character gettting hit would also get hit with the full attack of any attack basically and add crit into the mix and reflect is not too different (reflect is a champs attack). and another reason this is bad example most of the reflect skills arent spamable. they have long cd and last only for few sec.

also most of the champs reflect skills only reflect 75% of the dmg not these crazy high numbers so unless u are doing insanely high dmg (gcasting) you can survive like any other attack .
the one skill that does 80% refelct only reflects physical dmg lasts for 3 sec reduces you own protection by 100% and has a cd of 40sec. not really spamable.
the main reflect skill that everyone is whining about is wall of reflect it reflects 75% for 5 sec with 1 min cd this isnt really spammable but is nice to pop on ppl as a suprise (just as any other class bread and butter skill).
rotating shield only reflects 20% for 3sec
sheild bash 50% physical only for 4sec

physical characters and magic character can glitch cast alike.
everyone need to worry about any attack including reflect its only the gcasters (magic and physcial) that REALLY need to worry because they will kill themselves with the insane amount of dmg they do. if it werent for reflect that dmg would all be on you 100+crit sometimes close to 200%
if you are made of paper nerfing reflect or any other attack is not going to help you.


it is comparable if you were to sit and trade shots with another caster of equal attack/def/hit.
because you are basically hitting yourself.

and chaining them together isnt as dramatic as you make it sound the reflect doesnt last very long per skill and the cooldowns dont allow the insane numbers of reflect.
you can see when reflect is activated.
IT IS ONE OF THE ONLY ATTACKS you can very clearly see coming and avoid 100% of the time if you can see it.
why not nerf shrinks or make the reflect skill announcement same size as normal character even tho the person is shrunk.

reflect is not op it is ONLY op to those that see the attack and do nothing to stop it.

i repeat

REFLECT IS THE ONLY ATTACK YOU CAN SEE AND AVOID 98% OF THE TIME.
IT IS DEFENSIBLE if seen 100% OF THE TIME.
Nerf the shrinks
or nerf the reflect announcement to be the same size as the normal character even when shrunk is the answer to all the drama.


and the character i was talking about did use an allstat pet.
and yes the pet was spank.
and yes she used it in battlefield.
and yes when u killed the pet she could be killed.
and alot of ppl dont use pet in bf because they cannont afford it and alot dont know how useful they are in bf (it takes an insane amount of tear , time, and money to get pet strong).

well at least champs are better than templar now HAHAHAHA and i don't whine to that even my templar is so suck now xD becuz even you complain about that you can't do anything when they nerf or buff some classes just go with the flow lol

You were given what VIABLE champs do in BF and what they win doing. and you still aren't satisfied. there is nothing else i can tell you. everything posted is what VIABLE GEARED CHAMPS have obviously WON doing in BF and you keep saying it doesn't work. Maybe up your champ more? OBviously the others that i saw play in BF with this strat and win know what to do. and intead of "Nerf nerf nerf" think of what ash said "Let's fix and buff"

It's a shame you don't see what a nerfed abs stat for the rest of the game ..

as for the pet situation if i need to prove you wrong in game i will. you don't know a lot of the mechanics that you are trying to spout out about. when you've done the actual tests feel free to correct me.

Oh and your "It is the only attack you an can see case"

You ready for this?

Vanquisher activates destruction. YOU SEE THEM SCREAM IN THE AIR, Run away.


Wizard starts casting electrice spells. activate stun immunity trans or if your a temp activate restraint amensty. run away.

Sorcs you can see ALL the spells flying at you, you away,


If you know your skills. TRUELY know your skills and learn other skills. you can technically mitigate any damage from any class if you're smart enough to know the signs

Mythos wrote:

Oh and your "It is the only attack you an can see case"

You ready for this?

Vanquisher activates destruction. YOU SEE THEM SCREAM IN THE AIR, Run away.


Wizard starts casting electrice spells. activate stun immunity trans or if your a temp activate restraint amensty. run away.

Sorcs you can see ALL the spells flying at you, you away,


If you know your skills. TRUELY know your skills and learn other skills. you can technically mitigate any damage from any class if you're smart enough to know the signs

ok give me allstat'd pet ill take your challenge lol.
champs reflect IS THE ONLY SKILL THAT IF SEEN CAN BE AVOIDED 100% OF THE TIME.
the ones you mention cant always be avoided.

i win with my champ in bf alot. not as a total bone crushing gcaster. but as a support role. and i never said the combos u said didnt work the entire purpose of this post was to show that the champs skills are not OP.
they work just like any other classes skill work (if they didnt there would more problems than just abs) i was stating that it isnt op becasue it IS avoidable and unless you are running around gcastting not hard to win against.

and i already stated yes abs nerf sucks but that doesnt mean we need to go around nerfing everything else in the game because it is gone.
reflect is no different than any other attack except thatif it is seen it is defensible 100% of the time.

i have a stupid question. NO ONE ever said reflect was getting a nerf... what was the point of this?

Reflect gets complained about but NO ONE ever said it was getting nerfed... is this entire post just cause you thought it would be nerfed?

Mythos wrote:

This is in response to what was posed on the crusader update post... okay i'll go over it all

Reflect: Reflect bases it damage off how much You get hit for. and your current ABS. that being said if you have only 5% abs you're taking 95% damage from that skill. Now let's say the champ is "smart" uses food to shrink his size. lets a mage hit him. his setup is p def, not M def and he's using a p def chest piece. That means he's getting hit with the FULL blunt of the attack. He pops all reflect skills WHICH can equal up to 200% reflect. I've played close to every class, i know a lot about em, Now... do the math. a p defense setup means less M def. Not much Magical Damage abs. this means the caster is being hit with 200% of that skills attacks PLUS the weakened % of what the champ DOES NOT have up, and that's the LOW end. the higher end is the champ is really freaking smart and chains their reflect to make it last longer instead of popping it all up together. if you're small you won't see the reflect go up that quickly.

The same can be said for physical with a magical def/damage abs champ vs a vanquisher.

TLR? If you know what you're doing and you play rather smart and out think your enemy. yeah reflect is a monster with weakened abs.

No one goes around playing that way? Really I know 3 champs that have and i've seen all 3 win BFs that way. Maybe that's just me and maybe the g casters they killed were just noobs then.


I've seen everything from Wiz, to sorcs, to even Vanquishers taken out this way. The results speak for themself.


Also you gotta factor in the other persons ABS. they can't nullfy the damage from reflect with weakened abs as it is now. so yes reflect is strong.

Pets: Do you play with pets? Do you seriously play with pets? Cause unless you invest time and money into them, they aren't that great. Yes my pets can easily tank attacks and have nice debuffs. but i have them end geared. Who on the server has full all stat VI full VI armored, complete rank 10 pet skilled and 100% tonic pets? Cause... i don't know if there is more than 10 people that have that... maybe i'm wrong? But if pets are as "strong" as you say they are... why does no one use them in BF? I've rarely seen them.

You said in the other topic it was "Miss piggy" which is a midnight boar pet. you know why it was used? Not cause the thing was strong, it's a tanker style pet. IE it has low attack. It was used cause it has a -def uni skill. I"ve seen that thing die so many times when that player was around. Pets also can be wiped out by AOEs in a blink of an eye.


is there anything i missed?

this is the purpose of this entire thread

Or the complaints on templars and Champions "Too much defenseeeee and Abssss" so all abs got nerfed (Something i have... mixed reviews on) but it happens. with every class that is out there there is complaints on that class.


Healers are unkillable if properly geared.

Champs have too much reflect, with all the nerfed abs reflect is too op

Temps have too many sheilds

sin's OP DoT with too much evasion

WW, Too much evasion too high attack speed

Wiz have too many stuns. more than any other class

. As if a champ does the same tactic. IE, put on a magic abs chest piece to lessen their physical and switch def aura and put on reflect and a vanq hits them... the vanq will kill themself from reflect. The -abs increases the reflect. If you want more examples of Pets not being viable options for PVP or more indepth look at Reflect and abs i'll be happy to make a topic solely on it for you.

i just started a different topic to keep from tainting the original topic.

but usually when people start complaining about stuff is when it starts getting nerfed (ive been playing long enough to know this).
even tho only 2 or 3 ppl play with champs in bf.
im just trying to get the information out there so maybe ppl change thier mind and stop complaining so it doesnt get nerfed.

it is obvious that you think it is op and should be nerfed.
hence the reason i created this post.

I explained to you the way Reflect was OP. if you don't get it still. i'm not sure how else to go about this... i'm really uinsure how to go about saying more... for every example OTHER PLAYERS have reported to me in the past and how champs who play as i said before, you seem to think that's not right... i'm convinced that you just won't accept what others say...

So are we expecting a nerf for champs now? Hard enough to tank higher dungeons with the current state of templars, and now champs, too? Sad.

Mythos wrote:

I explained to you the way Reflect was OP. if you don't get it still. i'm not sure how else to go about this... i'm really uinsure how to go about saying more... for every example OTHER PLAYERS have reported to me in the past and how champs who play as i said before, you seem to think that's not right... i'm convinced that you just won't accept what others say...

you explained how it can be op for maybe 2 seconds until the next cd wich is almost a minute and even this it is ONLY OP if the person does nothing to avoid it WHICH THEY CAN MOST CETAINLY DO if it is seen it IS DEFENSIBLE 100% OF THE TIME.
you over exaggerated this all to be super op which it isnt.
if you SEE reflect.. DONT hit that simple.

refelct skills only last few seconds some reflect only physical dmg not all dmg.

and simple solution as i already stated would be to simply make the refelct announcemnt normal size even if the character is shrunk or nerf shrinks.

there was never any plan to nerf any class... someone took one statement way out of line and went haywire on the subject and after having proof that others players easily won still couldn't accept those results... for every argument there has been another that did just that countered. But to each their own. I"m done giving more as it will only lead to more drama.

i just wanted to get the information out there for the people who obviously think it is op and should be nerfed. (if a gm thinks its op and should be nerfed its likely to happen)

this already happened once before with champs.

and it all started becasue ppl where complaining about reflect on champs.

cant blame me for not wanting my class to be nerfed and trying to dissuade others from supporting it.

but again... no one ever SAID it should be nerfed just simply put it was OP. which is true. So again no point in this topic as people just said it was too OP but not once ANYWHERE did i say that champs were ever getting nerfed. you just took things and twisted it to make it your own twisted "justice" to defend a class that was NEVER in danger in the first place.

Mythos wrote:

but again... no one ever SAID it should be nerfed just simply put it was OP. which is true. So again no point in this topic as people just said it was too OP but not once ANYWHERE did i say that champs were ever getting nerfed. you just took things and twisted it to make it your own twisted "justice" to defend a class that was NEVER in danger int he first place.

ok agree to disagree.
you are a GM if you say a class is OP and give all the reasons why.
it says alot about where this is headed.
you may not have said it was getting nerfed but its obvious it is being thought about by a GM.

this article also states shows that with the absence of absorb all attacks become op more so than reflect. because reflect is defensible if seen 100% of the time.
crit is way more op topic to discuss because there isnt enough protection on the game to negate it all.

this topic is for informational purposes.
fin

every class is thought about in the head of a GM

Why did you solo out Champ when i also listed Healers, Assassin's, Wind Walkers, Vanquishers, Wizards and Sorcs?

Do you know why these classes get brought up? Cause players complain. and each complaint we give reasons or ways to get around those. this is a DAILY promblem

For every "Champs reflect is too OP"

i get "Sorcs ability to cast long sleep and heal themself is too unfair"

and "It's not fair saints can steal so much mana"

Or "Prophet's circles make them invincible"

i could go around for every class. the problem is for every class listed i never ever said any class would get nerfed. The orginal topic was ways to BUFF crusaders and should've been left at that. i offered a way to show you the ways reflect was good. But you took that SO wrong and twisted it....that makes me sad that this happened. So again i'll say it blunt

Champs are NOT getting nerfed right now as no class nerfs are being considered for the moment.

this topic is for informational purposes.
it will be helpful to those players that do not know everything. so that they can form their own opinions and maybe stop complaining about a skill so it will not be nerfed in the future.
i like reflect reflect is good.
reflect is not OP because reflect is defensible 100% of the time if it is seen and it only lasts for a few seconds champs are NOT walking around in a constant state of reflect.
how a skill that is easily defensible by 100% of players (regardless of stats, lvl, or class) 100% of the time is seen as OP is beyond me but I can be pretty daft at times.

im sure someone will have to get last word in again but please just let this post sit as is for informational purposes.
thanks.

Sedy suppose return regen heal skill from templar like old time 5 sec 60% heal, before templar got nerf alot and losing immunity skill for ownself also, now mostly boss or mobs hav dot, so 5 sec regen suppose is no problem anymore

just wanna hop on this thread and say HI EVERYONE! AHAHA

here's the REAL problem.

I've taken a long break from NS. Like over a year. I come back, and all my friends are gone but the same five or six people are still here steady complaining and whining about what needs to change or what's fair.

The problem is 95%of casual players lose interest because the 5% of players that feel they have some type of status ruin the game for everyone else trying to keep their unfair advantages and for some reason, GM's listen to them. That is the #1 thing I miss about retail. They didn't jump and change the game to whoever cries the most

Reflect is more powerful now due to the reduction in everyone's absorb stat, not only the Champs absorb (they now take slightly more damage which means more reflected) but also the damage you reflect is not absorbed as much either.

However, I do not believe reflect is overpowered since it's very easy to see when a class has a reflect skill activated due to the visual effect I gave it a long time back. If you kill yourself by spamming skills or glitch-casting whilst a reflect is up, it's your own bad play to blame, not reflect being overpowered. The Champion is built around reflect skills - it's their number one source of damage, so I have no plans to nerf or change them - it's not even on my radar. In fact I don't think any class needs nerfing right now - some need some buffs if anything.

would also like to mention for people that have hard time with reflect in battlefield.
if you see big refelct circle around character that means reflect is activated.
if the player is shrunk tiny to where you cannont see it you still get visual clues if u hit someone with reflect on as your shot hits them it wont quite feel right your character will kind of vibrate or jitter a bit indicating that some of the dmg you are doing is being reflected back.
once you get good at spotting it this is very useful because some reflect skills only reflect physical damage but the visual que is still up.
if you hit the player with a weak attack to see if your character vibrate/jitters and it does not and you are a magic user..cast away.
this means that they are only reflecting physical dmg at that time (funny thing is alot of champs dont even know this lol so it suprises them when they reflect physical and u are killing them without loosing hp).
also it goes without saying always keep an eye on your hp meter if you know you are going against characters with reflect this can also be an indicator.

And here i am trying to bring some ppl to play the game.

Getting rejected most of the times.

#sitinthecorner