LOL this thread become long. Just want hav fun, i dont care about pvp, coz play for dungeon and daily (pve), so no comment ;p

as for my opinion, in terms of def, its the templar/knights that are OP... they can stand out against 3 serkers/gladi... in terms of offence its the sorc/wizard due to their itd, sleep and stun... in terms of reflects, the hell with the SB, WW... one time bigshot for us serkers. why is that in all melee clas we serks and gladi doesnt have reflect....

The point of this post is for me to get players opinions, problem with that?

ahahhaha wtf?

atk speed bonus has cap at 80% anyway, and since ur class depends on dishing out only some fatal hits, i don't really see the need of having too much atk speed

was asking in a good mood lol

we all know its sorc

whats the point of this post?

the change is done 40% reflect is on. and im still ownage first time try out on DM i got 13-1 score. after 3 weeks not going BF and i still owned it without reflect! so stop QQ. and @wadi bish please damage is the most matter in PVP no matter how good is your hit chance evasion or HP aslong you have High damage you can kill anyone and without it i still own anyone in my path. so no more QQ you got what you wish for nerfed reflect. -nerfing it doesn't help you or anyone to survive on me at all. all it did was you just make SB defenseless and easy to kill for your class but rather than that nothing change. -good luck for those SB who can't afford to donate-

just add to it... your damage is like us vanquisher, chaosz can cause 18-19k dmge on me so c'mon

18-19k each so thats nearly 40k....

Lolz don't try to argue about damage. cuz you won't win either way cuz sedy already see the different between other DPS class. Soulblader/Myrmidon is the lowest damage DPS its look hight cuz of the attack speed but we're talking about 1 hit per skill and theres no skill on Soulblader or Myrmidon can do 40K+ damage in 1 hit so stop ur arguement cuz its nonsense and you know to your self vanquisher can still damage 40K+ to 60K+ in 1 hit and bout that 18K damage you're talking about on your Soulblader named "Chaoz" that was critical already thats not regular base damage ok if you gonna argue about me don't try cuz simple medusa strike you din't know about it you asked about it to me so in short i have more knowledge on you when it comes on Soulblader and beside i know the capacity of Soulblader since i've try so many build and not just regular build i build using moolah shit aight. just stop comparing damage. all good. and don't even try to make conversation cuz no one will listen to you.

Too long stun and cd too short? What about wind walker and 20s stun, 35s cd and ailemnt or lizard doesnt work haha.

There are lots of ways to counter wizard's stuns. + our itd is chain. one we've been silenced before casting itds. chain itd is broken already.

Really idk why ppl say that wizard is op but ok whatever haha wizard is op thats why some wizards already changed class to sorc

^HAHAHHAHAHA THAT. Sleep + eye of the storm. GG. HAHAHAHAA Kira hits 54k to zane. 1 hit

Haven't i think the comments were based on duels only

Not winged SB killed me in BF easy. Like 4 secs and 120k of my hp gone.
In my opinion SB is like adventurer with high dmg since I miss on them more than on adventurers.

I've been in a few DM's, I rarely get into one as there aren't enough people entering at lvl 85. Either that or the server is trolling me when I try to enter ;/

I dunno how a non-winged SB could knock out 120k HP in 4 secs with the skills we have, if the SB was well geared then yea I can see a higher damage output but that's from spikes only. If a SB builds themselves as an Eva build then I totally can see them being hard to hit due to the effects of 2 skills in particular but that is a lot of SP they'd be devoting to that particular route and they would lose out elsewhere as a consequence.

If you are right in your assumption Aqua then the people who voted not only for SB but for the other classes too should change their vote(s) as Sedy asked for only BF experience, not duels... That's not aimed at you Wadi as you already stated it was from BF experience.

SB's arent OP folks, the style of play has just changed.

Aren't op... I can't hit SB for 25s coz reflect, then they can debuff my hit and I will miss miss miss anyway they will kill me in this time anyway lol and silences sigh.

Yeah. It's always about PvP where you can use everything. Not duels. Actually, I once clashed with a winged SB was against Moonst. But didnt see how SB skills were since he was on whippa trans the whole BoA and spamming that -4k DoT lol

Most of the Merc/SB use eva build and with that hit chance debuff I miss more than on adventurer what for me is funny with 380% hit missing on heavy class.
Duration on reflect is fine? So i have to wait 25s till I can attack SB? Then SB can use injector so 8s more waiting then nirenia so 5s, silence me so again waiting. Can I survive while this time? Maybe if I will waste tons of pots.

It's already been said by me that the 20s stun of Wind Walker is a mistake and would be fixed in the next update. The two traps they have are round the wrong way. It will be 5s stun from Snap and a slow whilst in the vicinity of Snare.

They don't have 70% hit or eva debuffs, they have fixed amount of -700 Physical Hit from Subdue and -650 Physical Evasion from Tempest Slice and currently a lot of SB don't even have Subdue due to lack of SP.

That reflect will be reduced for sure though, it's way too high. Probably to 30/40%.

You can check all their skills at the trainer for the exact amounts.

Is the reflect going to be changed to reflect both magical and physical damage?

Not sure right now, probably not.

Shadow Walker nerfed? Really?? How exactly? They are much stronger than their previous job.

Vanquisher nerfed? You mean you lost bugged destruction that made your class incredibly strong, much stronger than it ever should have been? The one and only reason why the server was full of them? Then sure, I agree, they got nerfed.

ahahaha hey bish!!!!! WE're OP lolz!!!!! SOULBLADER OP!!!! WEEEEE!!! im proud to my self

When it was 20% and 30 seconds nobody said a word

Thats also why I said it could be lowered by 10 - 15% at this point in time as I don't think the skill is suitable at 60% when gears haven't really changed and therefore neither has attack/def or most importantly, HP.

You have a 10 sec skill paralysis do you not? in those 10 secs we would have to ailment if we wanted out of it which means we are vulnerable to a plethora of debuffs from a Vanquisher (not to mention his team mates) for around what? 5s before can ailment again and assuming we did it right at the start of the debuff?

In a group pvp situation, which the BFs are supposed to be, 5 secs is more than enough for a person to perish. You, yourself stated you died in 4.

Vote SB for Vice President )

Yah After nerfing sleep .. Sorc still OP .... Keep calm and Vote Sorc for president people haha

-700 hit = 70% hit chance in value sedy, I think thats wat he meant or he probably misunderstood it haha

Ah ok, thought he meant -70% of total hit. 70% is nothing really considering the amount most people have.

By the way, I wanted to vote on Wind Walker, but I see repetitive things "Assassin" and "Shadow Walker" on the voting choices~

70% is a lot sedy. Consider a lot of eva/resis has been added into the game. Even with just 300% eva it requires 400% hit chance to fully hit 100% on yet I believe people can gain more than 350% easily with some cards/gears nowaday/

u forgot sniper bish LOL. I saw Wiz/Sorc/Vanq/SB/Sniper/Sin/ healers some time. Rarely see the rest

Windwalker needs some immunity stun or something like that , silence or something , also traps or bombs are not really necessary

SB isnt op also Ww isnt LOL

Dude I swear. Hahaha. All these classes only went BF either once and never again or neeeever in their entire lvl 85 lives. I dont even know what makes these current votes OP.

To be perfectly honest, Sorc, Wiz, SB, Templar are just the more common classes now a days that actually participate in pvp. id I may be frank, the people who play these classes are the more active ones. Like say, Suki, Ex, Kira (used to be).

Yah with the BF: Not enough players ... Not enough players ... Not enough players ahaha

hahahahhaha bish

46% we are still leading yay ................

ikr jose so stupid some people thinking SB is OP cuz of 25secs physical reflect duh!! you can run out SB for 25secs and its not even working on magic attack......

or buff more evasion on him. cuz other class can still hit them with higher damage and hit chance from skills or items.

or more attack speed or something

I can debuff eva yeah but it still for me stupid that I miss on SB more than adventurer. So maybe give evasion for everyone only because you can debuff?

You know what is funny? My friend got SB and even he said it's more than OP class. Whatever you are a SB you will say it's weak. You got everything in your skills. You can debuff my hit so I will miss, you can debuff evasion and kill mail classes fast, you can debuff heal and kill healer fast, you got stun, immo, slowdown immunity so can kill wizard easy.
Why a class with high damage and high attack speed got a reflect? I understand that mail classes or tankers got reflect coz they dmg is lower but SB?

Oiii stop with the eva thingy. Eva ppl are squishy go for all stat build and kill em all. HAHAH

Yeah, -70% hit is a LOT. especially if you're an eva user and you whip his butt with your -70% hit invoke skill--you're a running goose. And i like it.

It's not easy obtaining 440%+ eva without sacrificing a lot of other stat. It's a risk compared to spamming your equips with just All Stat cards, you won't have to worry about balancing/boosting your stats.

LOL wadi even Merc got a reflect physic skill haha.

@Jose: Traps/Bombs are not necessary? Maybe for you but I live with it and i depend on it. You just need to know how to use it wisely and you'll see how effective it is.

@lalaahh: I think WW's attack speed is fine of how it is now. I even took off my atkspeed property on my boots and changed it to movespeed 'coz i get too much attackspeed whenever my invokes bite in. Oh, and don't forget about dog trans.

we need new relics against eva types lololol my opinion only xD

^LOLOLOL at this :P

Vanquisher nerfed? LOL it's better class than before, just in my opinion that SB is the most op.

what wadi we got everything?? lol don't be stupid SB doesn't have High damage compare to your Class Vanquisher that can hit 1 or 2 hits with 30K to 60K damage sure hit!!! and don't QQ on Attack speed cuz thats natural nature of dual sword class. compare to your class we don't have uber HP and Defense in short we're defenseless and by the way about what your QQing on immunity and reflect seriously me as full donator SB can't really rely on those since those skills got huge amount of Cooldown and again "We don't have Renewed skill like your class do" and you can use that only one time specially on PK or battle fields and about the -hitchance that skill was old skill of mercenary and tell you the truth as a pro mercenary USER and Soulblader you can't really rely on those skills too since u can remove it with ailment and potion if u basing it to duel like sedy said he doesn't care about duel and hes explanation about it is right cuz duel is very different on PK and battlefields. and yes you're right about the wizard and tanker we can kill them EASILY on duel but on PK and battle fields thats different story since u can run out Soul blader like you always do run right?! and about the reflect that you QQing only stupid person will hit someone with Reflect and you're stupid if you doing that also of course if you see that SB got reflect why you will hit him even tho u can run out him right? and by the way that reflect is only for physical so basically that is useless on Wizard and Sorcerer and you know that two class i mentioned got uber damage morethan any meelee class does and compare to Windwalker reflect that has physical and magic reflect and with 75% and Quick cool down SB reflect is nothing and not like wind walker reflect SB reflect can debuff. and by the way whos your friend Soulblader saying our Class is Over power let me slap him ingame to realize what hes talking about lol. or your just making story about your friend saying it. give me the he/she IGN.

Yeah? I heard each your hit on a Shiki so templar is 12k, dual class so 24k dmg in total. And it's a tanker on my you will be hit 30k or more easy tho. Tankers not gonna tank anymore.

lol i hit the same in any class it really depend on there equipes don't be stupid QQing about SB damage. as you said 12K each hit so 1 hit = 12K and 2 hits = 24K that was with ITD already with single hit i hit only 2K to 4K without ITD and im full donator imagine other Soulblader that can't afford to waste money for cards and decent weapons don't even compare SB damage to your class cuz Vanquisher can hit 30K to 60K+ in 1 hit so if you x2 that 120K+ total and i know u can do that cuz of renewed skill. and about your friend shiki is not Soulblader and when i PVP him that was duel its different on PK or Battlefields like sedy said he don't care about duel lolz. u doesn't make sense at all saying SB is OP look on your class with 120K hp and Uber damage before you QQ on something make sense first don't base it on 1 player be specific.

@Wadi , then the SB isnt OP , you just saying it because of the same what sedy said at the first , doesnt matters duels , u need more hit then LOL

@Wadi u need to play on a dual sword class man , because theyre not op in atack , they do 2 hits , each of that hits are the middle of the atack= same as your atack or whatever , isnt more atack just because they do 2 hits , if that was what u saying.....

also SB or Merc needs more critical , because they have really low critical chance , so , whats the problem? just run away and wait the end of the reflect LOL , lots of ppl run, i mean if u cant handle it , just evade it , it can be done , isnt the same as a lock or Sorcerer , they are long range atack , so u barely can run XD

Yeh your probably right Spunny

Thanks, changed it.

ikr jose

i agree with you dude enough QQing about other classes skill just adopt to the new era or IRIS and play well right

i mean "of not or" lolz... typo xD

I have no idea what you are talking about

ROFL! another nonsense......

See at least SOMEONE has sense in this convoluted thread. Geezus. Agreed!

My girlfriend. So awesome always. *sniffs* Im so proud of you~

Ray thumbs this up 100001 times. Therefore it is right k. =D!

LOL...this make me laugh haha

also @Sedy ...WindWalker isnt op than advent, is the same, i mean , u can change the 10% atack speed for 10% all def , advent or WW are so low on def , magic and psych , or u can do the same 6% a.speed plus some def

lol ray ... stop being cheesy ahaha

I never said it was OP I said it is STRONGER than it's previous job, which it is.

oh thats rite , is like a motorbike vs cars , if u crash theres less protection

Well, I can understand why Crusaders don't get a reflect, our 85, which I consider our ultimate skill is a skill reset, w/ 3 min cool down and adds 50% attack speed, almost every other skill on our skill tree is either debuff or some type of healing received negation, I've yet to test and see if the healing received negation applies to Turtle Shell and other self heals, but once I get a skill I will definitely try it out. We also have skills that increase cast time on Mages, so to hell w/ their sleep/stuns, if I can land a Dissection on a WW/Sorc...gg, 20% cast time increase. And that is the only skill I remember that does that. I believe there are 2 more skills that increase cast time, yet I don't know if they stack...I'm not 85 yet. But from what I'm seeing Crusaders are MEANT to control mages/healers...most of our new skills decrease healing and increase cast time...

Thats my Rider D: (btw it's Twinky) and yeah o.o I've said that from the start, even before the 85 cap release. >> Even tho just recently realized how unpopular my class is...and how hard it actually is to play, it gives me motive.

Helped that the guild got Rhap to log in so I could take a peak at his gear and see what I was doing wrong....but that's a different story (:

If I need 100% more hit than their evasion and they can get 300% or more while I got 380% hit with ghost buff. So I need 400% to never miss if they will remove my ghost buff it's 350% then 70% debuff its only 280% so miss miss miss.

More hit? So I have to put hit chance VI cards everywhere to don't miss on HEAVY class? You are not mail class the hell you are heavy class so seriously what is it?

Maybe stop comparing only dmg and compare our attack speed, evasion, hit chance, reflect?
Can't you say anythig without calling me stupid? I don't see point continue this discussion then. I'm stupid and I'm QQing okay.

im not calling anyone stupid lol, i think u are not referring to me xD , whatever , just saying , obviously you cant handle all classes by your own , and thats what u saying , only talking about SB , maybe that's the Nemesis class of vanquisher ? idk

i'd have to say Wizard is the move over powered class of the 3rd jobs

that void used with a good gcaster can nearly destroy anyone

but as for melee, not sure if Sniper or Sharp Shooter come after Scout, whichever one it is is very strong

but any reckless melee can easily kill themselves against a Champions reflect

and not , you dont need to , but just be noticed of this= lots of all stats dont help you even if they are the 30 ones, on sorcerer and wizards it helps so much because they got lots of damage from wis and int , but the agility gives really low atack compared to wisdom for the magical classes

My friend just told me about Soul Blader's skills and I think its gonna be the most op. 60% reflect for 25s? lol 70% hit debuff, 70% eva debuff, 40% heal debuff. Stun/immo immunity, I heard also a lot of silence, high attack speed, abs/def ignore. Poor mail classes gonna die so fast against SB lmao.
And I heard that one soul blader deals 24k dmg on a templar while I can like 12k.

I know you are not interested in duels but in duel SB can kill me before even silence gone so I can't do anything.

one more thing SB or Mercenary uses EVA build ,what is optional of your own opinion , that means , why u don't use a little HIT build? obviously an eva build will get more chance to win .....but i repeat they have low crit chance only a tip

i WOULD HAVE to agree with Luxray on this one ( Ryan)

Wizards are just extremelly to Over Powered. Stuns are too long, and Cd too short ..... Just my opinion

Overview: Wizards and SB are way OP, might want to test them again . Vanquisher and Shadow walker had been nerfed... just LOOK AT THE POPULATION OF ZERKS AND ADVENTURERS BEFORE, and look at it NOW

Thank you for reading (:

I've seen no SB in BFs yet, what about you folks?

but lets talk about the winner>Sorcerer , they can beat any melee class if they want to ,zerks can beat almost all the melee classes , some of the magic too or that was before the lost of their op destruction buff idk, and yes the mercenary has 20% Physic reflect buff before or 25 i dont remember

Remember, the -hit debuff requires a certain build, as a non eva built SB I don't use it, I CAN'T afford the SP points to place into that tree and have my other skills, there's also no point cus my eva is shit lol. I can't comment further on this aspect of the SB because as I said in my SB thread, I have 0 experience playing as an Eva Merc/SB and limited experience VS them because I've only ever faced a handful of Mercs in all the BFs I've been in and the 2 that used evasion are Ex and Angel3.

The reflect % is too high, I agree on that, a 10-15% reduction would be appropriate at this juncture. The duration and cooldown are fine, CD has had 1 min shaved off from it's Merc predecessor but it's also had 5 secs shaved off of it's run-time.

As for silences, we have 3 silences. 1 is on a 36 sec CD and it has a 3 second run time, the second again runs for 3 secs on a 7 second CD but requires SB: Assemble be in effect. The final silence has a .1 sec duration and can only really interrupt, it's on a 6 sec CD and is ranged. Zerks > Vanqs have a similar setup in terms of debuffs but your CDs are longer to reflect the nature of the debuffs + the fact you have a reset skill.

And I will keep saying that you are not mail classes and you never should got hit chance debuff and eva build. Maybe healers should got it as well? SB = adventurer with high dmg. Ok I'm bored of keep saying same so done. Whatever quitting soon anyway. Cya.

Soulbladers are only op for a few seconds, all our attacks and buffs have very long cooldowns, in a dual yeah sure we smash anyone but in PVP we are only good 1v1 and we have to end it quick or we are screwed, our eva and hit chance buffs have 1min CD the basic buff to then active those has a 25sec CD so yes we arw strong but like zerks used to be only for a very short period of time, we have to be fast and use our skills well to kill a person

@ Wadi hey man, most of the SB players will be annoyed at this, but you do know there are trans to remove eva right? and their are trans to up your hitchance, but also from what i have seen in the new imbued armor you guys get alot more hitchance from your armor. *just saying* yeah eva SB suck but also we dont cause much damage, with us its 2 choices eva or damage, we can have both but then both suffer, like advents we now need to rely on buffs to not get owned lol

Seriously Soul Blader Over Power... That makes me laugh... "for those whos saying SB is OP cuz of reflect and some immunity buffs dude thats all we got and it last long for only 25secs after that we're nothing but a DUAL SWORD USER NERFED WEAKLING..... we don't have OVER POWER DAMAGE LIKE Vanquisher/Wizard/Sorcerer/Windwalker etc. that can 1 or 2 hits someone with 30K to 60K damage and to make it clear Soul Blader Doesn't have Renewed skill and the Cool down of our Reflect is 2 minutes and before you can activate it u need another skill and one more thing some of debuffing skill of other class like example Vanquisher Dispell can remove it so in short saying that soulblader is Over power cuz of reflect thats a big stupid thing. ( If You can't beat me "Ex" on PVP that doesn't mean Soul blader is OP try to be specific not basing it on one full donator character and beside who else can be like me as a soulblader??? )

-Ex-

I don't really get why is everyone so butthurt over SB's reflect: Mercenaries had one (it was a vanilla skill) and it is adequate it got improved - and like someone here said, no one really complained about it eariler.
Also, it amuses me how some of you base your opinions on a class on "what a friend said". It doesn't work like that (if it ever did) - there's actually a ton of factors directly affecting the outcome of a given encounter; pure damage, though the main one, isn't the only, as it can be countered by so many things now - reflection included.
Oh, and you can simply purge [most of] the buffs, most classes have a way to do so now.

[for the great justice: Champion is Vanquisher's nemesis, not Soul Blader]

Vote Sorc for president )

First of all, most of these classes dont even go inside BF -_- In my past days of even going BF I only see. Vanq, Sorc, Wiz and the occasional Wind Walker and Assassin.

Hardly any amount of data.~

i think wind walker need a buff or something. just not op like other class

and that aura on wind walker only max lvl 9% attack speed. kinda weak. wind walker its not that fast attack idk why.

i think Vanquisher are the most OP class, recently playing in level 85 BF noticing that vanquisher can use physical and magic ITD but using the magic ITD i get hit 5 times and each time is 20k in a matter of 3-4 seconds and im a templar..... with some of the ITD of vanquisher i get 50-60k in a single physical hit. and injectors are useless in BF or PK since they can kill you in seconds with either skill type.

You accidentally put both "Shadow Walker" and "Assassin". Perhaps you meant "Wind Walker" instead.

Gonna be a dick and vote for saint!

I think it's too early for this.

1) a lot of people who don't have a few hours to spare each day aren't 85 yet
2) the skills keep changing, can't comment until it is at least somewhat stable
3) people need time to figure out and incorporate their new skills and get used to hotkeys.. combos don't appear overnight

that being said, the classes being voted for, are the ones actually attending bf.

Sorcerer's sleep skill made melee classes look dumb. Just saying...

i dont really care wat class is OP or not its just how we all play, others QQ of different classes cus they rather play other type of classes which brings down to even more QQ, as for me i've tried all classes and they all r good just depends on how u play it. and like Sedy said above, all classes have its own Nemesis~~

SORC FTW

Give all class a reflect. -_- xep for sorc having sleep and absorb (40%), wizard having short CD stun's and high DOT's that has short CD also.

Give me +1 if you agree. ;-;

Yay, no votes for my class. c: Even tho my class is all about debuffs and healer control...so in BF we'd be the one to set focus, but yeah who cares about teamwork D: