(Please read whole post as there are two different methods between first and second half of post)
[Throughout the post, 100 Diamond Ore is used for goal. The number next to iron is the amount required to get to 100 diamond ore but also the amount that will produce the amount next to silver. So the numbers are not additive, they are a sequence of exchanges/crafts that produce the next rarity of ore until the 100 diamond ore goal]
I've not really looked at past proposals for ore recipes and other ideas, but how about an NPC to run an ore market/exchange (like currency exchanges). Can use ore as a currency like Moolah to exchange for (buy) differing levels of ore. You can set a rate per upgrade ( /downgrade if feel the need) the same for all types or make different for all types. Following are some sample exchange amounts of each type to get to 100 diamond ore (the goal for many people), in 3 different tier of difficulties (I'll draw from Diablo III for the naming):
Normal (10x):
iron 1,000,000
silver 100,000
gold 10,000
platinum 1,000
diamond 100
As you can imagine, for Hell and Inferno mode's it's not really feasible to make all diamond from iron as it'd require 16 million and 39 million iron respectively. But it does provide a potential real use for lower level ore materials. If done by a vendor (particularly if can exchange in stacks) it does reduce crafting time from having to craft millions upon millions of times and makes it easily open to all players regardless of assistant skill choice or no assistant skill at all. Of course could also do it as a crafting recipe if you so choose.
The quantities are high, but realistically no one would rely exclusively on lower level ores, they would be getting diamond and platinum ores while mining (and a variety of other ores) or buying from AH/trading players. But it does provide a way to make use of the ore most players end up not using. Because of this, lower quantities of exchange than 10 seem unreasonable and too easy. As an example I'll list an easy mode of 5x ore per upgrade to the next level of ore and how much of each would be required for 100 diamond ore:
Once again, it doesn't need to be the same amount per tier, maybe 2 iron = 1 silver and 5 silver = 1 gold and 10 gold = 1 platinum and 20 platinum = 1 diamond or something like that. Would probably be a more reasonable setup and preferred to the other options. Here is what that would look like as a path to 100 diamond ore:
The choice would be up to you, these are all just recommendations with sample numbers to see how effective they would be. Please consider these options. This would reward any amount of mining, create new markets and encourage players to mine more. And now for the opinion portion, if you do decide to implement this and choose to use one of the above sample, my vote is for the customized tier sample, it makes the most sense and is reasonable/not unattainable while being balanced between rarity of loot.
Here as an extra throw in i'll toss in 1 advancement to customized tier so it is a little harder if you want (basically i'll just double everything), but it basically makes the higher rarities worse than the inferno tier, but easier on the lower:
All is up to Admin's of course, particularly the numbers/quantities used, but if you like the idea (or are opposed to it) of course feel free to comment below.
Edit: Add in a poll for those too lazy to post but want to give a generic response to let Sedy know what they think. If gets enough support/sedy likes the idea and doesn't want to choose numbers himself, can always do a second separate poll.
replied on Sunday, April 13 2014, 06:05 PM #Permalink
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Oh and an implementation of this could be NPC with different tab for each ore being traded in and the tab contains the other ore types for their equivalent values. If done this way could also in theory trade in diamond or platinum for the equivalent values of iron/silver/gold... Though at the moment I dont believe there is a use for those (no one is selling them in AH), so it is unlikely that is something people would do for now. Leaves open future possibilities though depending on new uses for ore's in recipes/quests.
replied on Sunday, April 13 2014, 06:35 PM #Permalink
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oh, it could be? itll be amazing i think, everyone now will be crazy collecting those recipes ... currency exchanger? i want more ..uhm, moolah to tears? and tears to moolah .. btw, nice idea?
replied on Sunday, April 13 2014, 07:48 PM #Permalink
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Tears/Moolah exchange would forever be a bad idea since moolah is the support structure/pays for the server expenses, though everyone would love having an npc to do it nonetheless. We do already have that exchange in place though via players, just the price is not set and varies wildly between players.
Well at the least I think it's a good idea and good way to handle a heavily requested feature that there hasn't been a good way to implement yet. At the moment, can see sedy watching has looked at thread and has not commented, so I assume he is thinking about it and watching how thread/poll goes.
replied on Sunday, April 13 2014, 10:37 PM #Permalink
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i really do like the ideas. i mean honestly atm all the ores minus diamond are useless. So having ore trade for items like the tear vendor(if i understood your idea) would be awesome, hell could even do like special items you can only get threw that. Like ore collecting titles, special miner outfits, you know things like that.
Idk Im rambling on now xD anyways great idea, 10/10
replied on Sunday, April 13 2014, 10:50 PM #Permalink
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i'm all for this idea so please don't take this the wrong way but my thoughts turn to the people who have spent hours and hours farming diamond ores. If something like this was to be implemented then the people who farmed diamond ores would have basically wasted their time. I think this is a great idea but unfair to those that have put the time in to farm for their diamonds. However if people like the idea and want it implemented then by all means go ahead, you have my full support. Alternatively we could just ask sedy to increase the rate at which diamond ores can be found. I will admit that after 35 - 40 hours of farming myself i have only found 3 diamond ores so maybe all we need really is an increase in the rate they can be found, but like i said if the people want this and the people who put the time in to farm their ores don't mind then i am all for it.
replied on Sunday, April 13 2014, 10:52 PM #Permalink
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:3 i wanna say that ... MORE Ore vein less QQ 'cause no one can mine meaning no one can get D.ore. A minority of people get the spot and always on it lol.
replied on Sunday, April 13 2014, 10:57 PM #Permalink
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I would say higher rate for D.ore is better than crafting it. The idea of using it for CQ is to make CQ hard because it is the end gears of the game (at this moment) as well as Lisk I weapons which are Highest dmg weapon in game. If it become too easy such as crafting, everyone would be fully CQ-ed within 2 weeks and start QQ-ing on how boring the game is ....
replied on Sunday, April 13 2014, 11:52 PM #Permalink
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Well this system is designed to avoid much of that qq over those who have farmed for hours. 2000 platinum ore for example is a lot... i farmed for 30 min yesterday and got 3, so depending on luck, about 1 per 10 minute... about 333 hours of mining for 2000 platinum then. or 13 non-stop days of mining. but obviously get d.ore in there too and lower types. The people who have completed in current method and would be upset is why i posted so many options in quantities.
Of course, It was really hard for me to complete CQ85, a lot of hard work. I invested about 20-30 minutes of my life into buying 100 D. Ore with moolah. (/sarcasm on that last sentence). There is a large effort part to it, but it's also not like it cant be easily done if you have spend money. This wouldnt change it all that much, if you spent whole time mining only + this system, this system would probably account for 1/4 of d. ore aquired. It is 100% dependent on what system of exchange sedy would choose (inferno would make it barely worth it). Some have told me they have gotten 20 d ore in 24 hours mining.
3 d. ore for 35-40 hours... just seems really unlucky, dont think it's supposed to be that bad.
replied on Sunday, April 13 2014, 11:54 PM #Permalink
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Oh, also, as for rates... I by all means do not want current ore veins do change, but Vulcan is right. I was thinking maybe sedy should create a bonus vein in pvp map for crazy people, that has double rates. People who are crazy enough to attempt to mine their would have to pvp for the rights to the veins. But would have to be only a few areas so dont have to hunt down random veins/farmers for pvp.
Edit: Nereus's Ore Vein, guarded by Nereus in PI, lol
replied on Monday, April 14 2014, 12:36 AM #Permalink
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'The Spot' I have a feeling I know which one you are talking about. Sadly there are only a few good spots, but there are few out there. Partly problem is only 1 channel now so highly condensed. But also I have no incentive to mine. Can do an hour and get a d. ore or no d. ore at all. I think more people would want to spend time mining if at least got something useful for their time. Oops going off topic. Yeah though could use some more veins like the pirate location one, particularly if going to be limited to 1 channel now.
replied on Monday, April 14 2014, 01:21 AM #Permalink
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PI and NFS has ore vein. Same drop rate tho. Creating more ore vein would be nice .... increasing the drop rate of it would be nice as well. But Crafting upgrade is different, 2000/100 -> 1 = 20. D.ore is tradable ... therefore statistically to say about this, 2000 is not that much with everyone capable of crafting it. Also, Ore Vein War will definitely occur again where it will be come drama just like Ore vein when it was introduced. I would rather have Sedy focus on making game contain than dealing with stupid drama over people KS-ing each other vein.
replied on Monday, April 14 2014, 01:24 AM #Permalink
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1. D.ore is 1 of the thing keep people donating to keep server alive. I dont see a point to put in this crafting system and lowered the income for the server just saying
2. Increase drop rate of D.ore would solve the problem of 1000000000 hours farming. A reasonable buff would be just enough
3. The amount of Ore Vein now is quite low as well as the density of ore vein within 1 certain area can cause some people quit farming (Ive seen enough ppl farmed for 5mins then quit and go QQ on low drop rate). If there are more certain spots that people can farm then it should be less QQ-er on no D.ore
There are an infinete number of ways we can solve the exact number issues if 2000 plat/100 d.ore is not enough. This is more for the general idea, Sedy would pick appropriate numbers and adjust as needed if not working right.
replied on Monday, April 14 2014, 01:36 AM #Permalink
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.... tbh, NS has major problems if D. Ore moolah sales is what is keeping NS Iris alive. Luckily there are many people who have alternate characters that they need to get another 100 D. Ore for, so they should keep things going for a bit more, and like I said, this encourages more people to want to farm ore. And yeah, part of the reason for this suggestion is due to scarcity of veins and the rate of D. Ore acquisition, though that's not the only reason. I do also feel we should make more use of other ore, atm it seems pretty worthless.... ohhh, i just had another idea i may poke sedy about, dont know if system/mechanics of game can accommodate new idea -writes down for later-
replied on Monday, April 14 2014, 01:43 AM #Permalink
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well number can always be work out ... but adding war drama is different. lets face it, everyone need ores ... some buys some farm but when crafting come in. How many people gonna go all out for Ore since there is a chance to get D.ore after a long day? It is not like Iris people are sharing and caring enough to give up an ore vein for others.
I would rather have Sedy focus in the game more than having to implement it and possibly remove it in future just over stupid drama.
replied on Monday, April 14 2014, 02:07 AM #Permalink
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From what I understand this thread is basically just asking for a conversion between ores for the reason of making the other ores not complete trash. I kind of like diamond ores being valuable and easily exchanged for moolah because it gives people something to farm if they are not able to donate.
How about making ores an ingredient in recipes? I know GT recipes already need ores, but they're not really diminishing the supply because trophies (another ingredient) are really limited and being used for titles.
I would suggest making a couple new recipes that give the same food as before but that give a higher chance of the bigger number of food pcs. E.g. currently when you make Wolf Charcoal, you have a chance of 1x or 6x. Why not make a new recipe that gives the same food, but instead of 6x it's 8x. Or simply a better chance of the 6x. Make it for food that people really spam making (mostly those that are commonly in the AH). It still won't really be valuable, but at least it would be better than simply NPC-ing it.
replied on Monday, April 14 2014, 02:59 AM #Permalink
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Therefore, save yourself some drama ... as well as give sedy time to update more stuff that is more interesting ... especially that Magic tower and new mounts .... and new wings
replied on Monday, April 14 2014, 04:17 AM #Permalink
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It's a nice idea but it would mean coding a new type of NPC to exchange items for other items. It is something on my todo list but it's not a priority tbh, so until that is done, I wouldn't really be able to implement this anyway.
I do however agree that ores need more uses other than CQ, weapon, alchemy and food recipes, so they will be used for the new weapon enhancement cards that will come in the Easter update. Whilst the recipes don't require massive amounts individually, I'm guessing the numbers will soon start to stack up since everybody is going to want them
I will continue to look into other ways to make them useful too.
On the subject of adding more veins - you just got a lot more in the update the other month - many more were added to the pvp map and also a few to NFS. I think a lot of people just want more easy mode veins that are on top of eachother so they can be lazy bums in one place but sorry guys, not gonna happen
replied on Monday, April 14 2014, 04:49 AM #Permalink
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Well wasn't really expecting it to be done now or for a little while, lots of new stuff being added in. But glad to know it's a feature you plan to code in eventually. Hope you'll consider this again after you get item exchange feature in place down the road.
This was about 2 things. One was making D. Ore slightly easy to get (though not much) and two, giving use to the other ore types. I am glad to see you will be finding ways to make the other ore useful. As it was an entirely newly implemented feature, it didn't have much support to be useful other than for CQ originally. I look forward to new uses.
As for stacking ore veins... yeah I think that's what most people want, run around small area without having to search map. Though without a few of those, it actually requires an extraordinary long time to mine 100 d. ore. I believe those who have successfully done it so far have kept to the several spots that spawn close together.
replied on Monday, April 14 2014, 07:04 AM #Permalink
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I was thinking along the lines of creating a new map, around the size of vortex where 3 mining nodes will spawn. To enter you need to pay 1000 tears for the ticket that expires daily.