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Ash Ash
posted on Monday, June 19 2017, 05:29 AM in Game Suggestions
Crusader class is a well known class for being invisible (you nearly and never see this class around, even after the buffs he have received back in Jan 8)

so i have came up with an idea to solve some of the issues this class is having.
my idea keeps the theme of the "vampire" class, gives the ability to be meaningful in PvE while also grants some sustain and gap close to the PvP problems it had(has).

here are some of my ideas:


Impregnable Cataclysm 2 - Efficiency changes to 8/9/10 based on rank rather than 5/6/7 (This is to match with the vanquisher's removal buff from enemies skill)


Exposure 3 -
Rank 1:
-1600 Physical Defense -> -10% all defense
-100 Physical Protection -> -10% all protection
-150 Physical Evasion -> -10% all evasion
new invoke: 10% chance to grant 5% all defense buff for 7 sec
Rank 2:
-2000 Physical Defense -> -20% all defense
-200 Physical Protection -> -20% all protection
-250 Physical Evasion -> -20% all evasion
new invoke: 10% chance to grant 10% all defense buff for 7 sec
(Changing the reduction defense into all defense makes the class more wanted to be in parties and grants the team more chance to hit the mobs/bosses, in pvp it helps to boost up the damage that crusaders having a bit problem with [from what i have heard] and the invoke can help the crusader a bit to sustain more, the low chance is because this skill is spammable(7 sec cooldown) )


Mangle - Damage bonus changed from 5%/10% to 10%/20%


Dissection - Damage bonus changed from 5%/10%/15% to 10%/15%/20%

(Crusaders lack a bit of damage compare to other classes, so boosting these 2 skills can change something)


Rupture -
Rank 1:
New invoke: For a successful hit, heal the player 4000 HP per second for 4 seconds (100% chance) Efficiency 6, physical

Rank 2:
New invoke: For a successful hit, heal the player 5000 HP per second for 4 seconds (100% chance) Efficiency 7, physical
(notice it matches the bleed number effect)

(will explain later why)


Blood Congeal -
Rank 1:
New invoke: For *each* successful hit, heal the player 4000 HP and 1000 MP per second for 4 seconds (100% chance if hit) Efficiency 6, physical

Rank 2:
New invoke: For *each* successful hit, heal the player 4000 HP and 1000 MP per second for 5 seconds (100% chance if hit) Efficiency 7, physical

(The reason for giving these invokes is for making the player who uses crusader more sustain in battlefield [PvP] as when they get focused they die easily and dont have much room to do stuff and therefore that invoke can make the fight a bit less frustrating for the crusader. The efficiency there is to cancel that buff so the player who is against the crusader can remove that healing)


Blood Craze -
Rank 1:
New effect: Reduces all damage by 5%

Rank 2:
New effect: Reduces all damage by 7%

Rank 3:
New effect: Reduces all damage by 10%

(Blood Craze is an awesome ability since it reduces the physical hit chance but there is no really a room for that ability to be used against mages or magic type mobs, therefore giving it also a slight reduce to all damage on enemies can give this ability a new use and moreover supports your tank in a dungeon)


Vampiric Curse -
Rank 1:
New effect: Ability is now AoE, 5m radius

Rank 1:
New effect: Ability is now AoE, 7m radius


Last idea is to make a new skill for crusaders which makes them either run away or catch up someone.

(insert random name)
Magic skill
Skill type: active
Requires: GreatSword
Cast time: 1 second (if can, static, that cannot be changed with -cast time)
Cooldown: 2 min
Cost: 2500 HP

~text~

Effect:
During the channel(1 second) you gain 100% all absorb, 11 efficiency physical/magic/poison immunity, push/pull immunity.

After the channel, the player gain a burst of movement speed(500% movement speed) for 1 second

Efficiency 99

(why? crusaders lack some defensive skills [life steal is a good one but reliable] and this skill i believe can help them a lot by either escaping or countering an attack that can end them, the high cooldown is to not make other players get frustrated by the skill and not giving too much of freedom for the crusader and be careless. the immunities for all the debuffs is to not interrupt the skill, since the cooldown is high it wont be nice when someone cancels it to you. the absorb there is because the skill meant to be as defensive one, an escape, so it helps to not die while in that state)


i would like to hear all other suggestions too :D

Will it bring back crusaders?

Reply   
Responses (13)
  • Accepted Answer

    Umpity Umpity
    replied on Monday, June 19 2017, 05:27 PM #Permalink
    crusader used to be op if you knew how to play them then they got nerf about a year or so ago and only a few of them around anymore.
    i have one i started to enjoy playing with but the nerf happened not long after so i just abandoned it.
    i think the reason they got nerfed is one particualarly strong player in pvp that used to use a pet with her crusader all the time and noone could beat her.
    so everyone whines and complains they cant beat her then eventually the class get nerf.
    little do the whiners know it was her pet that was spanking them yet an already nerfed class got nerfed further.
    the class only has one purpose as since they got nerfed the first time way way back and that is pvp.
    that is why noone plays with them anymore who wants to spend all that time and money on a char they can only use in pvp and even then it wont be that great in pvp either.
    lol
    sorry im whining.
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Mythos GM Mythos
    replied on Tuesday, June 20 2017, 02:18 AM #Permalink
    Crusaders are still viable... they are a good "annoyance" class. DoTs do help in PVP. the - healing power, the AoE silence push. They are still VERY viable. You're suggestion is nice, i don[t like the sudden SUPER abs and speed boost... it... doesn't make sense to me.


    As for Umptiy. It was nothing to do when pets. Crusaders in general were just... Overpowered, They had two MASSIVE DoTs and 1 skill Refresh and that could kill any class in the game all you needed was "Hit buffs" it was to the point the class was needed to be re worked. It's still not perfect but it's 'balanced" i would like the class to have more to offer. It's like Vanquishers and the MASSIVE ITD from long long long ago. Or the complaints on templars and Champions "Too much defenseeeee and Abssss" so all abs got nerfed (Something i have... mixed reviews on) but it happens. with every class that is out there there is complaints on that class.


    Healers are unkillable if properly geared.

    Champs have too much reflect, with all the nerfed abs reflect is too op

    Temps have too many sheilds

    sin's OP DoT with too much evasion

    WW, Too much evasion too high attack speed

    Wiz have too many stuns. more than any other class

    I can go ON AND ON of all the complaints for every class that i've gotten if you want. I promise there is a complaint for every class even still on Crusaders... but yes this happens a lot, but back on topic, I'll get with Sedy and the other GMs for a way to buff crusaders more
      Reply 
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  • Accepted Answer

    Umpity Umpity
    replied on Tuesday, June 20 2017, 02:30 AM #Permalink
    Mythos wrote:

    Crusaders are still viable... they are a good "annoyance" class. DoTs do help in PVP. the - healing power, the AoE silence push. They are still VERY viable. You're suggestion is nice, i don[t like the sudden SUPER abs and speed boost... it... doesn't make sense to me.


    As for Umptiy. It was nothing to do when pets. Crusaders in general were just... Overpowered, They had two MASSIVE DoTs and 1 skill Refresh and that could kill any class in the game all you needed was "Hit buffs" it was to the point the class was needed to be re worked. It's still not perfect but it's 'balanced" i would like the class to have more to offer. It's like Vanquishers and the MASSIVE ITD from long long long ago. Or the complaints on templars and Champions "Too much defenseeeee and Abssss" so all abs got nerfed (Something i have... mixed reviews on) but it happens. with every class that is out there there is complaints on that class.


    Healers are unkillable if properly geared.

    Champs have too much reflect, with all the nerfed abs reflect is too op

    Temps have too many sheilds

    sin's OP DoT with too much evasion

    WW, Too much evasion too high attack speed

    Wiz have too many stuns. more than any other class

    I can go ON AND ON of all the complaints for every class that i've gotten if you want. I promise there is a complaint for every class even still on Crusaders... but yes this happens a lot, but back on topic, I'll get with Sedy and the other GMs for a way to buff crusaders more


    true..
    i just wish at some point we would stop going backwards and maybe start going forward.
    seems every character ive built i start getting used to it then it gets nerfed.
    if you look back at some of the lvl 65 accessories compared to the accessories now you can see how things have changed alot some of the 65 accessories are more op than the 100's
    and with all the new crit stuff coming out im sure ppl will start to complain about that as well.
    because there is not enough protection available in the game to negate all the crit.
    so then we will start seeing alot of amped up protection and crit.
    and the classes with already high crit will end up nerfed because they have higher crit.
    endless cycle.
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Umpity Umpity
    replied on Tuesday, June 20 2017, 02:41 AM #Permalink
    and for all the people complaining about champs having too much reflect.
    1. their reflect keeps the super gcasters at bay (which i bet are the ones complaining)
    champs can be beaten easily if you play the game the way it is suppose to be played.
    glitch casting isnt even supposed to be part of the game.
    2. ww have a better reflect skill than champs.
    3. thats the only damage champs can really do effectively is reflect.
    4. its already been nerfed to hell and again .. just leave it alone please.

    and it isnt becase of abs that reflect is op. it is because the supergacasters doing billions of dmg in an isntant they kill themselves.
    reflect has always been a skill to be careful around.. running buck wild and slamming a person with 5 hit combos in a second isnt smart way to play if you know reflect exists.
    people dont like getting killed when they hit rosak at 40% and most are smart enough to stop when it is close.
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Umpity Umpity
    replied on Tuesday, June 20 2017, 03:04 AM #Permalink
    Mythos wrote:

    Crusaders are still viable... they are a good "annoyance" class. DoTs do help in PVP. the - healing power, the AoE silence push. They are still VERY viable. You're suggestion is nice, i don[t like the sudden SUPER abs and speed boost... it... doesn't make sense to me.


    As for Umptiy. It was nothing to do when pets. Crusaders in general were just... Overpowered,


    when crusaders got nerfed there were maybe 3 decent crusaders playing at the time.
    and we know they werent doing pve duengeons etc.
    and the only one that sticks out in my head that i could not beat was the one im referring to(wont name names) but had the pet called "miss piggy" and the pet alone could spank most ppl in bf.
    after the nerf that person changed class.
    but other than that person no other crusader sticks out in my head as ever being op.
    thats why i mentioned it.
    because i hated going up against her pet.
    if u managed to kill her pet she was able to be killed like normal.
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Umpity Umpity
    replied on Tuesday, June 20 2017, 03:14 AM #Permalink
    crusader and vanquisher arent classes you want to get close to you if you are a caster for obvious reasons.
    now with absorb gone and immunity runes those class can making swiss cheese out of ppl in bf.
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Sedy Admin Sedy
    replied on Tuesday, June 20 2017, 03:16 AM #Permalink
    I would like to say, I do not nerf classes purely because of a single player, I never have regardless of what some of you might think. Don't get confused between me making changes to a class because of player "A" being considered overpowered by players and complaining, and me noticing that class mechanics are scaling badly because of player "A".

    I do not have "favourite" players that I buff, or people I "dislike" that I nerf out of spite. I do not play the game on the live server so I do not buff/nerf classes to suit myself either.

    I do not enjoy nerfing classes and skills as it upsets players for obvious reasons. I only resort to nerfing when I believe it's absolutely necessary for the good of the game as a whole. I nerf when a class, skill, or mechanic is broken or has scaled more than first anticipated when created (either by me or by original devs). I also rework things as I gain more experience of how things work. But never do I nerf just for the sake of it - I don't have the time for that quite frankly. I always try to give something back to the class in some way when I have to nerf something but that usually goes unnoticed as all people see is NERF.

    Anyway, let's stay on topic and not derail this subject - it's about Crusaders and what can be done to help the class be more usable.

    Crusaders (and some other classes) lost percentage based dot damage because it was completely overpowered in PvP and unusable in PvE - I'm certain I don't need to explain why. Since then, Crusaders have been buffed on numerous occasions to improve their damage and their usability in PvE, but I do feel they could use some more defensive capabilities in general and some kind of "oh shit" button like most other classes have.

    I will keep watching this topic and we can come up with some ideas.
      Reply 
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  • Accepted Answer

    Umpity Umpity
    replied on Tuesday, June 20 2017, 03:17 AM #Permalink
    and when champs got nerfed lol there was only like 2 ppl in the game playing champ regularly.
    it just dumbfounds me how classes with so few players using them get nerfed first.
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Mythos GM Mythos
    replied on Tuesday, June 20 2017, 04:21 AM #Permalink
    "Pets" like Miss Piggy aren't the key to PVP... Pets in general are NOT great in PVP when a pet dies in 5 hits even end gear ones yeah... trust me i've done the tests i've ran the numbers Umpity. The pets were NOT the reason this player was winning BF. How do i know? I have a pet with the HP of a 85 geared player with a lot of def and it still dies in BF like CRAZY. Pets are not viable killers in BF they are annoyers. Don't mistake "skills" for pets. Now Sedy said the reason for the "nerf" it was not a wanted one but it was a needed one.

    As for Absorb, Yes absorb IS what makes Champs Reflect OP. it's not G casting or anything of the sort.

    Take for example a wizard vs a Champ, If a champ activates the skill that switches their magical def to decrease to increase their physical defense. that means they take more damage from magic correct? Without a magical abs chest piece the damage is FURTHER increased. Now imagine all that damage getting hit back with reflect. The - abs from the champ makes the damage greater since the wizard also doesn't have that much abs as compared to before.

    the same situation is with Vanqishers. As if a champ does the same tactic. IE, put on a magic abs chest piece to lessen their physical and switch def aura and put on reflect and a vanq hits them... the vanq will kill themself from reflect. The -abs increases the reflect. If you want more examples of Pets not being viable options for PVP or more indepth look at Reflect and abs i'll be happy to make a topic solely on it for you.

    NOW the topic at hand.

    Crusaders, I do like the vampire nature idea of the class... damage heal based on how many ticks the dots hit. Though... i fear that might be too much with the classes already high 27% (I THINK? Correct me on that) HP abs buff, which can be lasting for up to a minute if i'm correct with skill refresh and recast it.

    I"m not sold on the immunity+100% abs skill with the movement speed after, i said that before it's not... that it's not good but i don't understand the point of a 1 second skill like that. But maybe it's just me. I feel for crusaders as i do think they need stuff such as shields or something as they are nothing but glass cannons, but every balance has to have a downside. I'll throw some ideas around and see if i can suggest something to Sedy later on.
      Reply 
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  • Accepted Answer

    Ash Ash
    replied on Tuesday, June 20 2017, 06:22 AM #Permalink
    Mythos wrote:

    I"m not sold on the immunity+100% abs skill with the movement speed after, i said that before it's not... that it's not good but i don't understand the point of a 1 second skill like that. But maybe it's just me. I feel for crusaders as i do think they need stuff such as shields or something as they are nothing but glass cannons, but every balance has to have a downside. I'll throw some ideas around and see if i can suggest something to Sedy later on.


    idk actually, just threw some idea to it xD not sure if its necessary to do that ability but you do have a point on that 27% life steal buff, maybe that buff should be tuned down a bit to make a room for one defensive ability because crusaders lack that kind of immunity which nearly every other class have.
    but thanks for the review hehe
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  • Accepted Answer

    D king D king
    replied on Thursday, June 22 2017, 01:22 PM #Permalink
    i agree Ash, too be honest crusader class was totaly forggoten by players, the clas is underrated compare to other classes. what complains can be about crusaders if none plays crusaders... the class has low survivablity, and low dmg. its killed easy it dont have any escpaes or deffensive skills comapred to other classes. and his skill kit alows you ro play very one specific style.. focus one target and try kill, if you killed nice, if not you will just die.
    the class is weak compared to toher classes, in terms of survivel skills and dmg. after the DOTs were nerfed crusader became mostly usless. so i think a small upadate that will buff them and grant them some need of a play style can be good, for example as Ashe suggested, ofcourse i dont say its the best way to update them but there are alot of nice idea how to update them and bring them back. about the 27% life steal buff... its not op and its pretty much usless, so many different ways to counter it that i wont even list them.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Umpity Umpity
    replied on Monday, June 26 2017, 07:28 PM #Permalink
    the biggest problem i have with this class is if you use up your combo then do a skill renew the use combo again you are basically running around for your life with your thumb up your butt waiting on cooldowns .
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Sedy Admin Sedy
    replied on Friday, July 14 2017, 04:15 PM #Permalink
    The following changes will be made to the Crusader class in the next update. These are mostly buffs to their damage output and cooldown reductions to improve their skill rotations, along with some HP Drains on a few of their medium-length cooldown skills and an AoE Immobilize to improve survivability.

    Gladiator's Whirlwind 2 cooldown reduced to 14s (from 24s).
    Whirlwind 3 cooldown reduced to 14s (from 16s).
    Coup de Grace cooldown reduced to 9s (from 12s) and bonus damage increased to 10/15/20/25/30%.
    Dissection bonus damage increased to 10/20/30% and now returns 10/20/30% of the damage done as a heal.
    Open Wounds bonus damage increased to 20/30/40% and now returns 10/20/30% of the damage done as a heal.
    Mangle bonus damage increased to 20/30%.
    Impregnable Cataclysm 2 efficiency increased to 8/9/10 (was 5/6/7).
    Blood Craze now reduces Physical and Magic Hit (was Physical Hit only).
    Vampiric Curse now effects upto 6 enemies within a 10m radius (around self, no target required) (was single target upto 12m).
    Blood Congeal now also causes Immobilize.
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