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Sedy Admin Sedy
posted on Thursday, March 23 2023, 03:25 PM in Game Suggestions
Numerous players have contacted me recently suggesting that the Vanquisher class is underwhelming to play. I would like more information on why they feel underwhelming to play and in what scenarios. How are they in endgame PvE content, Battlefields, and PK?

I would like to gather ideas/suggestions on improving them from those that have played them, with them, or against them.

Please feel free to voice your opinions and debate other's opinions, but DO NOT turn this into a huge argument or start attacking players for having one. Any such replies will be removed.
Responses (37)
  • Accepted Answer

    Kokushibo Kokushibo
    replied on Thursday, March 23 2023, 03:34 PM #Permalink
    12
    in pve, this class is doing very well Vanq has a lot of buff on aoe goals due to which it is very easy to kill mobs in any dungeons
    as for pvp, perhaps he should reduce the cd on the skills-stun by 5-7 seconds, because the seconds of stun are similar to other classes(3-4sec), but at the same time have a cd 2 times longer

    In my opinion , he doesn't need a lot of changes , it's enough just to change the stun skills so that the class would become more in demand in pvp;)
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  • Accepted Answer

    Kickito Kickito
    replied on Thursday, March 23 2023, 04:22 PM #Permalink
    16
    Make it the way you imagine it to be. Stop listening to 14 year old kids who don't like class, poor vanquisher, how much to fix him?
      Reply 
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  • Accepted Answer

    Lucifer Lucifer
    replied on Thursday, March 23 2023, 04:59 PM #Permalink
    15
    I will try to simplify my opinion as much as I can. Vanq's kit is obviously based on burst damage and not sustained damage, nothing else, so nowadays warriors having an unrealistic amount of defensive stats(plus that gay invention called Injectors) affects this class negatively as it makes Vanquishers unable to burst the opponent in the duration of their timed buffs and stuns(considering the opponent is a decent player and a warrior), the class is just underwhelming to play against another warrior/fighter due to it's long CDs, but vs cloth and mail armor classes the class is just fine. I would suggest to leave Vanq as it is and nerf warriors defensive stats, mainly HP. Or try buffing Vanq's skills but I doubt that it's gonna be any good, either it will be too strong that it's going to make vanquishers unbalanced or it will be something very insignificant that it won't matter.
      Reply 
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  • Accepted Answer

    Hellstaff Hellstaff
    replied on Thursday, March 23 2023, 07:14 PM #Permalink
    -21
    Vanquisher is a good pve class.
    But if to talk about pvp, it is much weaker than all the other armor classes.
    Vanq have little damage and at same time dont have good debuffs on skills, just one debuff that gives minus defence don't deal damage, the second debuff gives minus all stats, what a deal for it?
    Cooldowns on some skills are too long, for example, stun at second prof refreshing 42 seconds.
    Also Vanq lacks healing and buffs for combat.
    Not much attack speed (attack speed ups only during mini buffs).
    I suggest the following:
    Cyclone: decrease сooldown 42s -> 30s
    Forceful Throw: decrease effect Move speed -70% -> -50% and add heal 5% every 2 sec (during 4 sec)
    Relentless Assault: increase cd 9s -> 12s and add debuff -phys abs 10% during 6s (with 70% chance)
    Intense Activity: add slow immunity
    Slaughter: 1) back like was before (magic attacks) OR 2) decrease cd 40s -> 30s and add -def 20% during 10s
    Ferocious Roar 2 and Comet Strike 2: swap effects
    Overpower: make it a buff for 30m with effect att speed +9% OR decrease cd 1m20s -> 30s
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  • Accepted Answer

    Kokushibo Kokushibo
    replied on Thursday, March 23 2023, 07:31 PM #Permalink
    16
    Hellstaff wrote:

    But if to talk about pvp, it is much weaker than all the other armor classes.
    Vanq have little damage and at same time dont have good debuffs on skills, just one debuff that gives minus defence don't deal damage, the second debuff gives minus all stats, what a deal for it?


    :D :D :D
    why vanq weaker than others plate class? you forgot fix myrm? x) dude now it is the weakest class plate
    as for the damage - lol vanq has the most frenzied damage

    And I can notice the comment above from Lucifer
    This class is really good against mag and mail classes
    It should not be strong against other plate class because they have high physical def and protection
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Gold Yuzu Gold Yuzu
    replied on Thursday, March 23 2023, 09:43 PM #Permalink
    Vanqs are actually doing pretty well tbh. It's all about items and build. Everyone knows that. Bad build and buffs mean you lose. Every class has a downfall. That's part of the game.
      Reply 
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  • Accepted Answer

    Hellstaff Hellstaff
    replied on Thursday, March 23 2023, 11:10 PM #Permalink
    -5
    Then why do other plate classes have to be strong against vanq?)
    they took away the magic stun on Myrm, and for you the class immediately became the weakest?)
    I suggested a variant without weakening other plate classes, because it will affect the balance in general, and the changes that I proposed will not change vanq vs mages and skin in any way, but will strengthen it against other plate class.

    P.s If Vanq is such a good class as you say, why does half the server play on SB?))) and vanq 2 pieces, yesterday was 1, and 3 weeks ago - 0
    there is a statistic that says that no one plays vanq. But here for some reason you all have a strong class
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  • Accepted Answer

    Lucifer Lucifer
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 01:02 AM #Permalink
    Hellstaff wrote:

    Vanquisher is a good pve class.
    But if to talk about pvp, it is much weaker than all the other armor classes.
    Vanq have little damage and at same time dont have good debuffs on skills, just one debuff that gives minus defence don't deal damage, the second debuff gives minus all stats, what a deal for it?
    Cooldowns on some skills are too long, for example, stun at second prof refreshing 42 seconds.
    Also Vanq lacks healing and buffs for combat.
    Not much attack speed (attack speed ups only during mini buffs).
    I suggest the following:
    Cyclone: decrease сooldown 42s -> 30s
    Forceful Throw: decrease effect Move speed -70% -> -50% and add heal 5% every 2 sec (during 4 sec)
    Relentless Assault: increase cd 9s -> 12s and add debuff -phys abs 10% during 6s (with 70% chance)
    Intense Activity: add slow immunity
    Slaughter: 1) back like was before (magic attacks) OR 2) decrease cd 40s -> 30s and add -def 20% during 10s
    Ferocious Roar 2 and Comet Strike 2: swap effects
    Overpower: make it a buff for 30m with effect att speed +9% OR decrease cd 1m20s -> 30s

    Vanq's damage is quite fine, warrior's defensive stats are not.
    It's debuffs are quite good as well, that's an undeniable thing
    And all of those suggestions to skills buffs just seem unrealistic and very not well thought-out suggestions, you just took other classes skills and want them to be added on Vanq, why not just play those other classes then?
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Hellstaff Hellstaff
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 08:39 AM #Permalink
    -5
    why invent a wheel when you can just add a few good debuffs that another class already has?) from what I wrote there are only 2 skills I looked at SB . There is not so much variety in this game to come up with something new, for example, Cruz is almost a copy of vanq, differs only in that he has 2 skills with poison and very strong vampirism.
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Maybe Maybe
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 10:07 AM #Permalink
    Hellstaff wrote:

    why invent a wheel when you can just add a few good debuffs that another class already has?) from what I wrote there are only 2 skills I looked at SB . There is not so much variety in this game to come up with something new, for example, Cruz is almost a copy of vanq, differs only in that he has 2 skills with poison and very strong vampirism.


    Cruz has the same debuffs as Vanq, Myrm has not gone far. you say that Cruz has 2 poisons and vampirism. But about the fact that Vanq has a lot of stuns, you decided to remain silent
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  • Accepted Answer

    Hellstaff Hellstaff
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 10:11 AM #Permalink
    -3
    cruz has 1 less stun,everything else is pretty much the same,and it has a 22 second cooldown. only Cruz has poisons that almost completely kill the enemy and vampirism with a heal that almost completely restore Cruz from scratch ) and SB has more control
    vanq has no damage in these stuns, cruz for 3 skills deals the same amount of damage as vanq for all combos
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Kokushibo Kokushibo
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 12:51 PM #Permalink
    Hellstaff wrote:

    cruz has 1 less stun,everything else is pretty much the same,and it has a 22 second cooldown. only Cruz has poisons that almost completely kill the enemy and vampirism with a heal that almost completely restore Cruz from scratch ) and SB has more control
    vanq has no damage in these stuns, cruz for 3 skills deals the same amount of damage as vanq for all combos



    Hmm, there is not 1 vanq on the server and not even 2 or 3, there are more of them, just many do not prefer pvp content, but for pve the vanq class suits
    You can't compare crus and vanq because they are different classes and races
    They were made individually in their own way, with their own advantages and disadvantages
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Lucifer Lucifer
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 02:05 PM #Permalink
    Hellstaff wrote:

    why invent a wheel when you can just add a few good debuffs that another class already has?) from what I wrote there are only 2 skills I looked at SB . There is not so much variety in this game to come up with something new, for example, Cruz is almost a copy of vanq, differs only in that he has 2 skills with poison and very strong vampirism.

    Becauss Soul Blader does not have skill reset neither does it have two stuns with a high duration, 1 silence(from shield) and on top of that, the silence from Duel,
    How fair is that you expect those to be added while Vanq has CD reset skill??
    And how are Crus and Vanq the same? One relies on burst and hard CC, the other relies on sustained damage and healing, they have nothing in common bruh
    And about the wheel inventing thing, well if you were to have the same skills passed along between classes then how does that make the class unique?
    Tbh it just sounds like you are desperate for buffs and not actually stating the issue and giving a rational suggestion, no offense.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Lucifer Lucifer
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 02:13 PM #Permalink
    Well, we all stated what we wanted to, no point arguing further, let's wait for Sedy to comment on these suggestions :)
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  • Accepted Answer

    Hellstaff Hellstaff
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 03:33 PM #Permalink
    -4
    vanq has nothing but unique except having 2 stun`s and a duel. Tell me what is his strength?)
    the SB has immunities with a cooldown of less and a duration of 2 times more, he has a buff of ignoring armor that gives another miles of range + there is a buff of ignoring armor with a chance, there is an opportunity to keep the character in place longer than the vanq, he has more total damage due to debuffs, he has a silence debuff that is the same as Vanq. his treatment is better than Vanq . SB is the same as vanq only 2 times better. Crus 2 times better than Vanq. Vanq is a stub, other classes have everything the same that he has only 2 times better.
    your arguments are broken down by statistics and damage figures in vanq battles with other armor classes
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  • Accepted Answer

    Kokushibo Kokushibo
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 03:44 PM #Permalink
    Hellstaff wrote:

    vanq has nothing but unique except having 2 stun`s and a duel. Tell me what is his strength?)
    the SB has immunities with a cooldown of less and a duration of 2 times more, he has a buff of ignoring armor that gives another miles of range + there is a buff of ignoring armor with a chance, there is an opportunity to keep the character in place longer than the vanq, he has more total damage due to debuffs, he has a silence debuff that is the same as Vanq. his treatment is better than Vanq . SB is the same as vanq only 2 times better. Crus 2 times better than Vanq. Vanq is a stub, other classes have everything the same that he has only 2 times better.
    your arguments are broken down by statistics and damage figures in vanq battles with other armor classes


    Your arguments are based on the fact that you can't win against these classes, so you want to improve the vanq class.
    Our arguments are based on the fact that no matter what class you play, if you press the buttons correctly, you can win
    The only thing I can support your position in is to reduce the cd on the stun skill by 5-7 seconds



    and Lucifer have video where he win my vanq\myrm on colo use sb\vanq
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  • Accepted Answer

    L1sto4ek L1sto4ek
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 03:52 PM #Permalink
    -3
    you can just watch this video)

    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Hellstaff Hellstaff
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 04:09 PM #Permalink
    -4
    that you wrote this is just your arguments, and the fact that statistics say that now almost everyone is playing for the SB and no one is playing vanq in pvp, this is a fact. If everyone is massively playing with one class, it needs to be weakened or strengthened by others to its strength level
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  • Accepted Answer

    Kokushibo Kokushibo
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 04:27 PM #Permalink
    Hellstaff wrote:

    that you wrote this is just your arguments, and the fact that statistics say that now almost everyone is playing for the SB and no one is playing vanq in pvp, this is a fact. If everyone is massively playing with one class, it needs to be weakened or strengthened by others to its strength level


    What facts are you talking about, who are all these people playing on the sb? 5-7 people on the server? When other players use mag or mail class?
    You recorded 1 of 4 duels where I won without losing a lot of hp AHAHAHAHAH
    And the fact that before that I won duels with the remainder of 5-15% hp did you decide not to send here?
    And what does this video show? This is a duel, wake up)))
    Anyone can win a duel
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  • Accepted Answer

    L1sto4ek L1sto4ek
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 05:41 PM #Permalink
    -3
    https://youtu.be/bRBF0rofptA in this duel , he deals 2-5 % damage to you , and by 10 % hp when you stayed , your hp recovery was greater than his damage
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  • Accepted Answer

    Lucifer Lucifer
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 08:02 PM #Permalink
    Hellstaff wrote:

    vanq has nothing but unique except having 2 stun`s and a duel. Tell me what is his strength?)
    the SB has immunities with a cooldown of less and a duration of 2 times more, he has a buff of ignoring armor that gives another miles of range + there is a buff of ignoring armor with a chance, there is an opportunity to keep the character in place longer than the vanq, he has more total damage due to debuffs, he has a silence debuff that is the same as Vanq. his treatment is better than Vanq . SB is the same as vanq only 2 times better. Crus 2 times better than Vanq. Vanq is a stub, other classes have everything the same that he has only 2 times better.
    your arguments are broken down by statistics and damage figures in vanq battles with other armor classes

    Your argument points are weird and do not make any sense anymore, sponsor me a class change to Vanq you change your class to Soul Blader and I would be more than happy to go against your Soul Blader as a Vanq to show you how it's played.
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Lucifer Lucifer
    replied on Friday, March 24 2023, 08:06 PM #Permalink
    Hellstaff wrote:

    that you wrote this is just your arguments, and the fact that statistics say that now almost everyone is playing for the SB and no one is playing vanq in pvp, this is a fact. If everyone is massively playing with one class, it needs to be weakened or strengthened by others to its strength level

    Everyone is playing Soul Blader - does that mean it's broken?
    No, there was also a time where I, Madara and NeverWinter were all Vanquishers at the same time, a class being popular doesn't necessarily mean that it's broken - more like the class named Soul Blader has been forgotten for so long and now people wanna try it out.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Kokushibo Kokushibo
    replied on Saturday, March 25 2023, 06:12 AM #Permalink
    L1sto4ek wrote:

    https://youtu.be/bRBF0rofptA in this duel , he deals 2-5 % damage to you , and by 10 % hp when you stayed , your hp recovery was greater than his damage


    If you open your eyes and see that we use 15% abs and food, you will understand why his and my damage is weak in %:D :D :D
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Kickito Kickito
    replied on Saturday, March 25 2023, 04:26 PM #Permalink
    L1sto4ek autist :p
      Reply 
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  • Accepted Answer

    Sedy Admin Sedy
    replied on Monday, March 27 2023, 02:08 PM #Permalink
    Vanq have little damage and at same time dont have good debuffs on skills, just one debuff that gives minus defence don't deal damage, the second debuff gives minus all stats, what a deal for it?


    Hardly. They have some of the highest burst damage of all the classes with all the skills that penetrate defense and their Destruction buff.

    There is a benefit to having skills with important debuffs NOT do any damage. Skills that do damage can miss due to the hit/eva checks. Debuff only skills like the Vanquisher's Ferocious Roar/Skill Paralysis/Demoralize can still be Resisted, but they can't Miss. If it did damage it could Miss and therefore no debuff, or it could be Resisted and therefore no debuff - so 2 ways for it to fail. They also have a buff that increases their Accuracy - so even less of a chance for those debuffs to be Resisted.

    Cooldowns on some skills are too long, for example, stun at second prof refreshing 42 seconds.
    Cyclone: decrease сooldown 42s -> 30s
    Ferocious Roar 2 and Comet Strike 2: swap effects


    The reason the Vanquisher and Crusader have stuns with higher cooldowns compared to other classes, and the reason they will probably not be lowered, is because of the cooldown reset skill Preparation/Killing Spree, and the sheer amount of burst damage achievable from the Destruction buff. Vanquisher already has a possible 14s of Stun when using Preparation providing nothing is missed/resisted, and 20s of armor penetration from Destruction. No other class has that duration of chainable Stun or armor penetration.

    Forceful Throw: decrease effect Move speed -70% -> -50% and add heal 5% every 2 sec (during 4 sec)


    Vanquisher already has a percentage based heal on Rage-neration.

    Overpower: make it a buff for 30m with effect att speed +9% OR decrease cd 1m20s -> 30s


    I won't lie, this buff is useless now and can be reworked for sure. I think turning it into a 30m buff granting 3/6/9% Attack Speed, as I did with the Crusader's Blood Craze, is reasonable.

    Relentless Assault: increase cd 9s -> 12s and add debuff -phys abs 10% during 6s (with 70% chance)


    This suggestion I will consider. It would be quite a nice buff and synergize with the bursty nature of the Vanquisher, considering the amount of absorb players have these days.


    Other than the change to Overpower, and possibly Relentless Assault, I'm not convinced further changes are necessary at this point.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Lucifer Lucifer
    replied on Tuesday, March 28 2023, 12:02 AM #Permalink
    Sedy wrote:

    Vanq have little damage and at same time dont have good debuffs on skills, just one debuff that gives minus defence don't deal damage, the second debuff gives minus all stats, what a deal for it?


    Hardly. They have some of the highest burst damage of all the classes with all the skills that penetrate defense and their Destruction buff.

    There is a benefit to having skills with important debuffs NOT do any damage. Skills that do damage can miss due to the hit/eva checks. Debuff only skills like the Vanquisher's Ferocious Roar/Skill Paralysis/Demoralize can still be Resisted, but they can't Miss. If it did damage it could Miss and therefore no debuff, or it could be Resisted and therefore no debuff - so 2 ways for it to fail. They also have a buff that increases their Accuracy - so even less of a chance for those debuffs to be Resisted.

    Cooldowns on some skills are too long, for example, stun at second prof refreshing 42 seconds.
    Cyclone: decrease сooldown 42s -> 30s
    Ferocious Roar 2 and Comet Strike 2: swap effects


    The reason the Vanquisher and Crusader have stuns with higher cooldowns compared to other classes, and the reason they will probably not be lowered, is because of the cooldown reset skill Preparation/Killing Spree, and the sheer amount of burst damage achievable from the Destruction buff. Vanquisher already has a possible 14s of Stun when using Preparation providing nothing is missed/resisted, and 20s of armor penetration from Destruction. No other class has that duration of chainable Stun or armor penetration.

    Forceful Throw: decrease effect Move speed -70% -> -50% and add heal 5% every 2 sec (during 4 sec)


    Vanquisher already has a percentage based heal on Rage-neration.

    Overpower: make it a buff for 30m with effect att speed +9% OR decrease cd 1m20s -> 30s


    I won't lie, this buff is useless now and can be reworked for sure. I think turning it into a 30m buff granting 3/6/9% Attack Speed, as I did with the Crusader's Blood Craze, is reasonable.

    Relentless Assault: increase cd 9s -> 12s and add debuff -phys abs 10% during 6s (with 70% chance)


    This suggestion I will consider. It would be quite a nice buff and synergize with the bursty nature of the Vanquisher, considering the amount of absorb players have these days.


    Other than the change to Overpower, and possibly Relentless Assault, I'm not convinced further changes are necessary at this point.

    Sedy moment :skull:
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  • Accepted Answer

    Lucifer Lucifer
    replied on Tuesday, March 28 2023, 12:30 AM #Permalink
    Sedy wrote:

    Vanq have little damage and at same time dont have good debuffs on skills, just one debuff that gives minus defence don't deal damage, the second debuff gives minus all stats, what a deal for it?


    Hardly. They have some of the highest burst damage of all the classes with all the skills that penetrate defense and their Destruction buff.

    There is a benefit to having skills with important debuffs NOT do any damage. Skills that do damage can miss due to the hit/eva checks. Debuff only skills like the Vanquisher's Ferocious Roar/Skill Paralysis/Demoralize can still be Resisted, but they can't Miss. If it did damage it could Miss and therefore no debuff, or it could be Resisted and therefore no debuff - so 2 ways for it to fail. They also have a buff that increases their Accuracy - so even less of a chance for those debuffs to be Resisted.

    Cooldowns on some skills are too long, for example, stun at second prof refreshing 42 seconds.
    Cyclone: decrease сooldown 42s -> 30s
    Ferocious Roar 2 and Comet Strike 2: swap effects


    The reason the Vanquisher and Crusader have stuns with higher cooldowns compared to other classes, and the reason they will probably not be lowered, is because of the cooldown reset skill Preparation/Killing Spree, and the sheer amount of burst damage achievable from the Destruction buff. Vanquisher already has a possible 14s of Stun when using Preparation providing nothing is missed/resisted, and 20s of armor penetration from Destruction. No other class has that duration of chainable Stun or armor penetration.

    Forceful Throw: decrease effect Move speed -70% -> -50% and add heal 5% every 2 sec (during 4 sec)


    Vanquisher already has a percentage based heal on Rage-neration.

    Overpower: make it a buff for 30m with effect att speed +9% OR decrease cd 1m20s -> 30s


    I won't lie, this buff is useless now and can be reworked for sure. I think turning it into a 30m buff granting 3/6/9% Attack Speed, as I did with the Crusader's Blood Craze, is reasonable.

    Relentless Assault: increase cd 9s -> 12s and add debuff -phys abs 10% during 6s (with 70% chance)


    This suggestion I will consider. It would be quite a nice buff and synergize with the bursty nature of the Vanquisher, considering the amount of absorb players have these days.


    Other than the change to Overpower, and possibly Relentless Assault, I'm not convinced further changes are necessary at this point.

    So according to you, Vanq can stun a character for 14 seconds using all of its stuns plus CD reset skill, Injector V lasts 10 seconds, press that and that vanq is fucking left with nothing for another 40 seconds, the same 40 seconds that are the CD of injector V lmao
    And that is without taking phy runes, dispel potions, and these gay LQ procs into consideration, in what world do you think Vanq can burst with all of that max abs % duration just cause it got a 9% attack speed buff? I hope you are not being serious right now.
    Go actually make a fully geared Vanquisher and try joining Colosseum vs me or Suzuya and you will understand what i'm talking about.
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  • Accepted Answer

    pondering pondering
    replied on Tuesday, March 28 2023, 02:58 AM #Permalink
    imho vanq is good in pvp against magic users but weak against evasion and tanks... crusader is even worse because it isnt good against anything...

    all classes are weak against tanks and evasion..

    to balance the game each class needs to be able to defeat any other class in 1v1 using advanced technique and combos timing etc and it has to be fun..but unfortunately that isnt the case here..the meta builds always have the most players and there isnt a viable option other than those builds because of nerfing down instead of up.. if a class is dominating dont nerft that class buff the others...otherwise we get boring classes...and there is not such thing as a balanced game the meta should always be shifting and beter skills added constatly to all classes with supriise results to keep the game interesting.. nerfing the meta just results in people being bored and only using 1 or 2 classes or not playing at all.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Sedy Admin Sedy
    replied on Tuesday, March 28 2023, 12:27 PM #Permalink
    So according to you, Vanq can stun a character for 14 seconds using all of its stuns plus CD reset skill, Injector V lasts 10 seconds, press that and that vanq is fucking left with nothing for another 40 seconds, the same 40 seconds that are the CD of injector V lmao
    And that is without taking phy runes, dispel potions, and these gay LQ procs into consideration, in what world do you think Vanq can burst with all of that max abs % duration just cause it got a 9% attack speed buff? I hope you are not being serious right now.
    Go actually make a fully geared Vanquisher and try joining Colosseum vs me or Suzuya and you will understand what i'm talking about.



    I don't think anything of the sort. I'm just stating a fact. The class has 14s of chained Stun when using it's cooldown reset skill, and that is why it's stuns have a longer cooldown. Nobody is saying changing Overpower to Attack Speed 9% will be a game changer for the class. I'm saying that in it's current form the buff is useless and I am willing to change it as per the suggestion.

    Make your mind up though. You basically said the same thing about the stuns and cooldown reset in one of your replies above. What suddenly changed?
    Reply voted down Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Lucifer Lucifer
    replied on Tuesday, March 28 2023, 04:47 PM #Permalink
    Sedy wrote:

    So according to you, Vanq can stun a character for 14 seconds using all of its stuns plus CD reset skill, Injector V lasts 10 seconds, press that and that vanq is fucking left with nothing for another 40 seconds, the same 40 seconds that are the CD of injector V lmao
    And that is without taking phy runes, dispel potions, and these gay LQ procs into consideration, in what world do you think Vanq can burst with all of that max abs % duration just cause it got a 9% attack speed buff? I hope you are not being serious right now.
    Go actually make a fully geared Vanquisher and try joining Colosseum vs me or Suzuya and you will understand what i'm talking about.



    I don't think anything of the sort. I'm just stating a fact. The class has 14s of chained Stun when using it's cooldown reset skill, and that is why it's stuns have a longer cooldown. Nobody is saying changing Overpower to Attack Speed 9% will be a game changer for the class. I'm saying that in it's current form the buff is useless and I am willing to change it as per the suggestion.

    Make your mind up though. You basically said the same thing about the stuns and cooldown reset in one of your replies above. What suddenly changed?

    No it isn't as useless as you think it is, there is a reason it was added in the first place.
    And quite sure I have my mind made up, nothing changed, you know very well how I stand with Injectors.
    Also if you were actually reading, i didn't say the same thing(you were talking about why Vanq's CDs are higher, I was talking about why SB's kit shouldn't be added to Vanq)
    L1sto4ek wanted Soul Blader's skills added on Vanq and I explained why they shouldn't be since Vanq has it's own skills already, it has literally nothing to do with my point.
    My point is how can a class that relies on 2 attempts to burst actually do it when there are such broken chance effects such as LQs and consumables such as Injectors(plus the warriors HP and Defense)
    But you completely ignored it it seems.
    Also why bother creating this whole discussion if you will end up adjusting a NON-GAME CHANGING kind of thing and just say you are not convinced that further changes are needed? doesn't make any sense tbh.
    I wasn't joking or trying to be aggressive when I said go make a fully geared Vanquisher and try out Colosseum vs a decent opponent, actually try to do that and you will have a sense of what I'm talking about.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Lucifer Lucifer
    replied on Tuesday, March 28 2023, 04:50 PM #Permalink
    I hope one day you realize that sometimes the issue with a class is not with the class skills itself but rather with the other factors such as gear stats and consumables etc.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Kokushibo Kokushibo
    replied on Tuesday, March 28 2023, 08:23 PM #Permalink
    Sedy wrote:



    Cooldowns on some skills are too long, for example, stun at second prof refreshing 42 seconds.
    Cyclone: decrease сooldown 42s -> 30s
    Ferocious Roar 2 and Comet Strike 2: swap effects


    The reason the Vanquisher and Crusader have stuns with higher cooldowns compared to other classes, and the reason they will probably not be lowered, is because of the cooldown reset skill Preparation/Killing Spree, and the sheer amount of burst damage achievable from the Destruction buff. Vanquisher already has a possible 14s of Stun when using Preparation providing nothing is missed/resisted, and 20s of armor penetration from Destruction. No other class has that duration of chainable Stun or armor penetration.


    reading you , I don't understand why then myrm demanded a fix , unlike vanq ,he can't keep people in stun for 14-20 seconds and doesn't have a reset of skills and there is no such explosive damage
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  • Accepted Answer

    Annu Annu
    replied on Friday, March 31 2023, 04:30 PM #Permalink
    I agree with the conclusion to this discussion. Vanquisher has always been a burst class, bringing their cooldowns to the average level would not only ruin the identity of the class but also make it extremely overpowered. If a burst oriented class can burst all the time that's certainly something.
    There's no doubt that Vanquisher can be underperforming in some game modes like Colosseum. In my opinion, the discussion here should revolve more about everyone having the access to effective defensive tools that can shut the class almost entirely, which is not the topic of this discussion. In other game modes like PK, however, Vanquisher can perform in all its flourish. Arguably the highest burst damage in the game on top of insane amount of CC (including uncounterable ones) puts all Vanquisher's enemies under the pressure of constant threat of dying quickly. The problem is, such performance takes tons of awareness and game sense, knowledge of enemy skills, cards, consumables cooldowns, etc
    This is the reason many people like to choose other plate wearers - with lower difficulty levels and more consistent reward. This, however, has nothing to do with Vanquisher being weak or underperforming in the game. A few minor tweaks that have already been discussed is more than enough to make this class even more enjoyable.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Kickito Kickito
    replied on Friday, March 31 2023, 04:35 PM #Permalink
    Sedy wrote:

    Vanq have little damage and at same time dont have good debuffs on skills, just one debuff that gives minus defence don't deal damage, the second debuff gives minus all stats, what a deal for it?


    Hardly. They have some of the highest burst damage of all the classes with all the skills that penetrate defense and their Destruction buff.

    There is a benefit to having skills with important debuffs NOT do any damage. Skills that do damage can miss due to the hit/eva checks. Debuff only skills like the Vanquisher's Ferocious Roar/Skill Paralysis/Demoralize can still be Resisted, but they can't Miss. If it did damage it could Miss and therefore no debuff, or it could be Resisted and therefore no debuff - so 2 ways for it to fail. They also have a buff that increases their Accuracy - so even less of a chance for those debuffs to be Resisted.

    Cooldowns on some skills are too long, for example, stun at second prof refreshing 42 seconds.
    Cyclone: decrease сooldown 42s -> 30s
    Ferocious Roar 2 and Comet Strike 2: swap effects


    The reason the Vanquisher and Crusader have stuns with higher cooldowns compared to other classes, and the reason they will probably not be lowered, is because of the cooldown reset skill Preparation/Killing Spree, and the sheer amount of burst damage achievable from the Destruction buff. Vanquisher already has a possible 14s of Stun when using Preparation providing nothing is missed/resisted, and 20s of armor penetration from Destruction. No other class has that duration of chainable Stun or armor penetration.

    Forceful Throw: decrease effect Move speed -70% -> -50% and add heal 5% every 2 sec (during 4 sec)


    Vanquisher already has a percentage based heal on Rage-neration.

    Overpower: make it a buff for 30m with effect att speed +9% OR decrease cd 1m20s -> 30s


    I won't lie, this buff is useless now and can be reworked for sure. I think turning it into a 30m buff granting 3/6/9% Attack Speed, as I did with the Crusader's Blood Craze, is reasonable.

    Relentless Assault: increase cd 9s -> 12s and add debuff -phys abs 10% during 6s (with 70% chance)


    This suggestion I will consider. It would be quite a nice buff and synergize with the bursty nature of the Vanquisher, considering the amount of absorb players have these days.


    Other than the change to Overpower, and possibly Relentless Assault, I'm not convinced further changes are necessary at this point.


    Why you add a +9% attspd when vanquisher already has a skill that gives him a temporary increase in attspd. Some classes dont have +attspd skill at all and have to change foots while sacrificing movement speed. Stop listening to people who tell you to change something, they do it only for their own benefit (for example, they made a build, and it lacks attspd, so they start complaining to the admin that their class is not strong enough)
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  • Accepted Answer

    Sedy Admin Sedy
    replied on Wednesday, April 05 2023, 05:11 PM #Permalink
    I have actually reconsidered about the change to Overpower. I think it would be better to leave it as it is currently. Calling it useless was an oversight. It synergises with several skills - mostly Duel, but also Slaughter and Destruction. Since Duel prevents the use of skills and relies on Auto-Attack damage, that 100% Attack Speed is a considerable buff. And for Slaughter, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you get an extra Slaughter use with Overpower active due to the faster skill animations. I think changing it to a 9% Attack Speed buff would actually be a nerf to the class. If you want more permanent Attack Speed, adjust your itemisation.
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  • Accepted Answer

    Lucifer Lucifer
    replied on Wednesday, April 05 2023, 09:11 PM #Permalink
    Sedy wrote:

    I have actually reconsidered about the change to Overpower. I think it would be better to leave it as it is currently. Calling it useless was an oversight. It synergises with several skills - mostly Duel, but also Slaughter and Destruction. Since Duel prevents the use of skills and relies on Auto-Attack damage, that 100% Attack Speed is a considerable buff. And for Slaughter, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you get an extra Slaughter use with Overpower active due to the faster skill animations. I think changing it to a 9% Attack Speed buff would actually be a nerf to the class. If you want more permanent Attack Speed, adjust your itemisation.

    An extra slaughter? How come, is it a bug?
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  • Accepted Answer

    Sedy Admin Sedy
    replied on Wednesday, April 05 2023, 09:28 PM #Permalink
    Euh never mind me, my senility is kicking in. I was thinking Slaughter was how it was originally where you could spam it for a duration :D
    Reply voted down Show
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