>_> Excuse you, sorcs are not buffed. Actually I think even vanq wasnt buffed *thinks* Mhmm...And healers.
Excuse you, other classes cant tank major dungeons >_>
Excuse you, most content which is this "99%" is all older content 75, level 85 makes it easier.
Go tank the actual 85 dungeons and bosses since Im having trouble finding tankers who actually know how to tank and not die miserably *amused*

Tanks are just undamnkillable.

PS.Also dont use threats about uninstalling the game to Sedy. You're being kinda rude =/

Update - 25/09/14
CLASS
Wizard
Chilling Shock 3 no longer grants Movement Speed reduction as part of it's debuff. This will allow the remaining -def part of the debuff of this spell to be used on bosses that are immune to movement speed reduction (most insane mode dungeon and world bosses are immune to movement speed reduction).
Chilling Shock 2 Movement Speed debuff increased slightly to what Chilling Shock 3 was before.

UPDATE - 22/09/14
SKILLS
Wizard
Chilling Shock 3 now reduces All Defense of the target and the duration has been increased to 10s. The effect does not stack with the Sorcerer's Tempest Shock 3 effect (if a Sorcerer casts it, the effect of Chilling Shock 3 will be overwritten and vice-versa).

Permeating Chill 3's invoked effect will no longer be overwritten by Ice Arrow 3 or Chilling Shock 3's invoked effect and now also grants Ice Infusion as well as Advanced Ice Infusion.


Assassin
Phase Collision range reduced to 20m in an attempt to reduce the amount of times the skill is wasted due to rubber-banding. 50m is just too far away. The skill is still likely to fail for anyone with high-latency just like all rush(charge,teleport etc.) skills in the game. The static 80% chance of the effect to land has also been increased to 90% since it has such a long cooldown and can fail. Hope it helps

UPDATE 11/08/14
SKILLS
Crusader
Beastial Impact 3 now grants 50% Boss Damage for 10s.

Vanquisher
Beastial Impact 3 now grants 50% Boss Damage for 10s.

Soul Blader
Devided Slash 3 now grants 50% Boss Damage for 10s.

Myrmidon
Penetrating Edge 3 now grants 50% Boss Damage for 10s.

Wind Walker
Savage Toenail 3 now grants 50% Boss Damage for 10s.

Assassin
Spectral Dagger now grants 50% Boss Damage for 10s.

Sniper
Dexterous Shot 3 now grants 50% Boss Damage for 10s.

Sharp Shooter
Breach Fire 3 now grants 50% Boss Damage for 10s.

Wizard
Permeating Chill 3 invoked buff no longer stacks with other skills that grant double boss damage, for example Chilling Shock and Ice Arrow. This should never have stacked in the first place and no idea how it slipped through for all this time.

Sorcerer
Scorched Earth movement speed reduction increased to -20/-50% and dot increased slightly to 1500/2000.

UPDATE 08/07/14
SKILLS
The following skills no longer have additional accuracy applied to them and will rely on +Hit like everything else.
Crusader: Coup de Grace, Rupture.
Soul Blader: Glacial Spike.
Myrmidon: Hemorrhage 2, Shatter, Rising Steam Strike, Dragon Force.
Assassin: Spectral Dagger, Serpent Sting 2, Psychic Attunement, Essence Shift.

Mercenary
Chilled Tempest Penetration reverted to be more retail-like. 5s cooldown basic attack with a low (15%) chance to grant 50/60/70% ITD for 15s. (Retail was 5s cooldown basic attack with a 15% chance to grant 100% ITD for 20s).

Soul Blader
Chilled Tempest Penetration 2 renamed to Frostbite Strike and no longer shares it's cooldown with Chilled Tempest Penetration from the Mercenary tree.

and thats just a few ray so sorry but try to find something for the tanks please and i didnt say tanks were useless but most dungeons (other than a few insane dungeons) can be tanked by other classes.

No healers.
Sorcs only 1 skill.
Mostly just update to boss dmg.

Again, most dungeons are 75 built. We are now 85. If you are to argue that tankers need a beef up, compare it to the dungeons and bosses that are in par. Circus I, ToAH, Golden Temple, N, H, I, Enraged Bears, Namazu and Glaceon.

LOL this is a joke seriously, just becoz tank dont hav update, doesnt mean that class is useless

#sadminyviolin

Uh, you kinda can't do the 85 dungeons without a tank >.>
It's a super useful class if you're good at it xD Always looking for tanks in our timezone~ why do you think we made one lol~~

The tank classes have seen the biggest buffs and changes of ALL of the classes compared to how it was back in vanilla retail when the server first started. Tanking classes were mostly useless at max level - they couldn't keep aggro, they had no damage and were terrible in pvp. People preferred to take a Berserker, SB or whatever else to tank dungeons over a real tank. Now they are extremely strong in all content including pvp and are absolutely required for the max-level content (insane mode dungeons and world bosses). If you are referring to level 75 and below, of course other classes can tank those, they are low level. There are huge differences between level 75 and 85.

Tanks haven't received updates in the last few updates because they simply are not needed and if anything they would get a nerf, not a buff. If you disagree you are welcome to post suggestions or just uninstall :P

Okay, firstly i would just like to point out to everyone that i haven't said tanks are useless, i admit they have their uses in a few dungeons and against world bosses so please stop saying they aren't useless.
Secondly, if you read what i said then you might understand that it was mainly just to see if there are any plans to buff tanks because (and am sorry to argue with you here Sedy) when it comes to PvP tanks ARE NOT unkillable they are pretty far from it since anyone who knows how to play the other classes can kill tanks easily.

The main problem i have is the simple fact that i have a level 85 templar with full CQ gear some of which has all stat VI's and i can be easily killed by sorcs, wizards, crusaders, assassins and all other classes. The whole point of a tank (in my opinion) is that they are extremly defensive wether its PvP or PvE and from what i have seen in iris this just isn't the case. I remember when tanks were saught after by all levels not just at max level to do dungeons untill the big nurf they got, since then there hasn't been any point to them anymore,

Now before you all start biting my head off just remember this is MY OPINION and nothing more, i just think tanks could be better again.

Quoting from a thread, "You're free to choose your own build, experiment and do whatever you want. Besides it's not the build that makes your character good -- It's you."

Quoting from Sedy, " Now they are extremely strong in all content including pvp and are absolutely required for the max-level content (insane mode dungeons and world bosses)."

Your opinion, " it comes to PvP tanks ARE NOT unkillable "

My opinion, if you're talking about BF, as banned-pot-BF, or duel, it doesn't prove a class good or bad because that's not how real PvP supposed to be. Class's full potential and your skills can't be measured there. BF used to be close to real PvP, but banned-pot makes it more like duel-BF

If you're killed in FP or PvP maps, re-read the first quote. There are quite many people who are able to drag a weak-as-hell class out of hell. You gotta find your way.

The point is make game as balanced as possible. You can't expect to be unkillable.

I don't mind if you argue with me and where exactly did I say tanks were unkillable? No class should be unkillable and no class here is unkillable as far as I'm aware. Some are harder to defeat by certain classes and vice versa but thats always the case in these games, it's rock, paper scissors. I don't attempt to balance around 1v1 duels regardless if they are done in Terminus or in a Battlefield, since this is an MMO. I try to balance around pve and pvp but it's incredibly difficult but I won't get into all that here yet again.

You are correct with your opinion that tanks should be very defensive and to my knowledge that are, no? The majority of their passives and skills are defensive. It was only in more recent updates that they were given more damage and utility at the constant request of players, because they felt they were not needed or useful in pvp and felt like they were missing out on a big part of the game. Whilst I agree that tanks are there to tank, I don't see why they should be left out in the cold when it comes to pvp and now they are not. Champions and Templars can both do very well in battlefields, but they are not unkillable gods and nor should they be. If you have what you feel is the best gear with the best cards and enhancements and some other class kills you, they probably have similar gear. If not, perhaps it says something about your playstyle or theirs.

I remember when tanks were saught after by all levels not just at max level to do dungeons untill the big nurf they got, since then there hasn't been any point to them anymore.

Are you sure you are remembering this game? :P I don't know of a time when tanks were always wanted because as far as I can remember (2011), people always took zerkers and sb to tank dungeons, even lisk when it was first released was tanked by those two. For as long as I can remember, people always complained about the tank classes being useless and needing buffs which is what got them to where they are now.

I seriously do not believe tanks need any buffs whatsoever right now but as I said before, if you disagree, make some suggestions on how they can be improved because you know by now that I listen to suggestions - most of the changes in the game were based on them.

BF used to be close to real PvP, but banned-pot makes it more like duel-BF

What do you mean Andy? Are you talking about the percentage based healing potions? If so, how is battlefield like a duel without them? I don't get it.

BF now gives an advantage to classes with DoT Skills since it gets rid of HP faster than just attacking does. *thinks* Not familiar with skills, but I think there was a huge HP % damage over time skill which for other classes, are pretty fatal. *amused* Considering it doesnt get affected by def/abs. Pretty hard to recover from that when theres no pots *nod nod* Maybe thats what he's sayin~

Usually duels in terminus have mini rules, like no potting, no ailments etc xD"

ahhhh I get it. The fact you can't use a percentage based potion makes it like a duel, like saying "no pots" rule. Heh ok.
Still not 100% sure on that change tbh but I have to admit, I had far more complaints about their use in battlefields than their ban.

Go tank the actual 85 dungeons and bosses since Im having trouble finding tankers who actually know how to tank and not die miserably *amused*

chuuu have meee o/

*cry* I only have you as main main tank tho .____.

well if i can put some imput here i have to agree with screwup, Templars are kinda useless, yes they are tankers but if you look at champions Templars are pretty fu$king useless, as i explained in detail to you sedy weeks ago about classes and skills etc i did point out champions are way over powered compared to 1 Templars and 2 how you and everyone says that tankers are for tanking, yet champs are pretty deadly,

and another thing i do have to agree with him in the recent up dates of classes getting boosted and Templars getting nothing, wizards yes needed to be boosted since the elf side of them sorcs are the most OP class in game and lets be honest can pretty much solo 90% of the shit out there now, apart from lisk I, liskH, new glaceon, that green frog thing haha, Cletus, sorcs can tank just about everything else if they are (decently) build with hp absorb weapon,

Vanquisher are useless if any class should of got boosted it was them, since that class died when ITD % was fixed

i know all the sorcs will QQ cause its the most favoured class but logically if you looked at all classes sorcs are in a league of there own in PVP and gods of PVE. especially if you can G cast.

so a curious question if sorcs are meant to be the DPS'ers for bosses but can be in majority cases unkillable in pvp, how come tankers cant be both sided be used for PVE ie tanking, and be able to fight in PVP? like champs can also cause i mean yes tankers have high hp and defence.. but doesn't mean shit if your just a walking statue for sorcs to g cast the crap out of you then heal themselves to finish you off or just fight with their 40% abs buff...

I hate Champs Reflect and Abs stacking~ =))

Sedy wrote:

BF used to be close to real PvP, but banned-pot makes it more like duel-BF

What do you mean Andy? Are you talking about the percentage based healing potions? If so, how is battlefield like a duel without them? I don't get it.

Yeah, as Ray said. Imma add a little more to it. Classes without healing skill or slow heal have disavantage here, Soul Blader, Myrm, gunners, etc. Fight between 2 players can end in 10s cause of Bleed. So yeah, not much of skills is shown here. Just spam your skills. Anyway, this isn't a thread about BF, so I want it to end here. We can have another thread to discuss about this if needed.

Ok everyone here goes my opinion and please don`t throw me anything for this but i think tanks are good enouth, i`m talking from the can`t get easy moolah for gears side, i tryied both knight and guardian for PvP on lvl 74 and tryied on CH with that lvl and same gears, it is hard yes, and kinda annoying when someone pops up and kill u all time or u can`t kill a boss or whatever u want but this balanced system where tanks are not gods is good too, imagine if tanks become gods on PvP and PvE this could be crazy, couse everyone will have one, and well tha play style and build is important too, all can happend, just wanted to let u all know that even with the best gears / items i can get i can play a balanced time on every mode, i got killed on PvP by people i just killed seconds ago, is not that what make it funny?, personally i prefer a balanced PvP. And making a big point on PvP with tank if they become gods how u want the BF to end, u want to be fighting all time without killing enemy and, of course didn`t get an ally down? this could kill me on real life, and u have to care aboute newbies and "Noobs" (yea i said noobs like u all call some of my alts too many times), what happend with those people? don`t they have the chance to try and learn? if u got tanks as gods or with too many buffs they will keep uninstalling game and BF is not gonna start never. On PvE mode i can`t talk to much couse as i said before i`m still lvl 74 on my both tanks but i do pretty well on CH / WGH with just 1 RDPS and it was lvl 74 too, soo as far i get i think they are really balanced to can play and don`t make others feel bad. Just gonna say again IS JUST MY OPINION AND DON`T WANT TO GET ANY SHIT ON ME FOR THIS (place caps to let it clear no offense intended). And think that Sedy owns the game and he hear suggestions but i think he is not gonna make it unbalanced again. For the rest have a good day and have fun playing.

Two cent here.

Tanks: Templars well... they are meant to be hard to kill. They are NOT unkillable. You want the EASY way? bleeds. You want the hard but still okay way? Gang them. That simple. But face it they are meant to be iron walls with little attack but a lot of threat genration to hold aggro.

Champs: I admit... i don't see a reason for a champion to have this MASSIVE reflect... a tank should be an iron wall not this massive 200%-300% at times reflect. But hey whatever helps people survive.

PVP vs PVE. Templars have always been perfered over champs for PVE. while PVP everyone avoid guardians unless a Crusader is around to bleed the F*ck out of them. That or sleep them from a sin or Sorc.

PVP: this isn't the place to bring this up but it was mentioned. the PVP pots are a bit better for people now than the % ones. You couldn't kill anyone as long as they had multiple % pots to spam. Back then tanks were unkillable with the % pots. This new BF pots make it where the high lvls OPs gets the SAME healing from a potion as a low newbie to 85. Fair and easy. Off that subject for the moment.

TLDR?

Tanks aren't as useful as they could be. True and fact. A Sorc can solo kill Lisk Hard lul. BUT Tanks are needed still and should STAY needed. I doubt Sedy would ever make it so tanks were obsolete...

I just wish all tanks are like Martha and Shiki. people who really know how to play their classes. and not a suck-ass jerk being "i'm a tank and i am immortal PvE or PvP."

for pve side yeah I agree they are good but compared to champs in PVP side to things Templars are very under buffed with the skill side to things and as for being gods in pvp, I have a Templar, I play it well and I play pvp well but even it being full VI pvp access pvp cloak, pvp enhanced weapon I hit on most rdps 6-8k average decent sorc with CQ sits on 80k + , my Templar sits on 215k hp but gets hit from rdps 15-20k per hit now in a single G cast 60k + of my hp is gone, with the stacking off pushes or stuns , absorb buffs or ice shield, then their ability to self heal, almost as much as Id hit them, tankers are no where near being gods for pvp more just meat shields to practice g casting in my opinion, but champs on the otherhand, have long range stuns, 10k aoe bleed skill, MASSIVE reflect skills, shield skills and a self healing skill that cannot be cancelled.

*blushes* ohoho papa snorlax ilu

Well as i say i`m still on lvl 74 and i can`t make an opinion aboute lvl 85, when i finish with all i need from lvl 74 BF i will check by my own, but by now i just talk from the low lvl side, and in relation with the RDPS damage to tanks, they are phisical type is normal that magic users make em more damage since there`s a big difference on both deffences

Ok so my last opinion on this matter is this:

1: Tanks are not useless, just mostly useless
2: Tanks in PvP are nothing but bugs to be squashed by all other classes (dont belive me? check how many classes have def reduction and ITD)
3: Tanks in PvE can be useful against certain enemys (not as many as they used to be but i digress)
4: The definition of a tank is a character that can sustain life through immense amounts of damage

no matter how you look at it tanks are not what they used to be or even should be now. I admit they should not be unkillable but they should be pretty damn close to it and if you are all scared of tanks in PvP then CONGRATULATIONS you just learnt how you SHOULD feel when you see one.

I read the updates for the 14/10/14 and noticed that there were MORE def reduction buffs to snipers, berserkers, sould bladers and assassins.

So with all these skills and many more like them a tanks defense disappears very quickly leaving them the weakest class in the game. They do minute amounts of damage (as they should) and now they have pratically 0 defense in PvP.

My point on this post wasn't to start an argument about this it was to try and bring back the tanks in both PVP and PVE.

Oh and lets not forget the nurf that mobs had to reduce their damage, making it even easier for other classes to tank them.


Oh and sedy it wasnt you that said tanks were unkillable it was ray.

And ray, it wasn't a threat about uninstalling the game and i am sorry if you took it that way, i was just woundering if there was going to be any buffs for tanks planned or if i should just quit now.

I hate liars. *goes to test on boston how much one skill does on exposure up and without* 15k-20k per skill my ass. psht.

Why should I be scared of a tank due to...damage? What? I'm scared of a tank cause of their skills. They are good crowd controls especially for magic users. Hence, I sleep tanks and ignore them cause they are annoying due to silences and pulls skills and takes 1001 years to kill. PvP wise, I miiight agree that Templars would need some sort of attack, but with the increase of -defs on a lot of melee users, tag teaming with a tank is pretty good. These shit stack. Honestly I'm tired of melees getting 10001 buffs and dont even need shit except BF armor with a bunch of stamina cards.

Idk about you, but Lauren uses her tank well in PvP. And its barely even stat built *snort* "Weakest class in game" indeed. Gahd, you're dense. A load of people have tankers honestly, easiest to build, easiest to skill and has loads of HP, plus these peeps are most ly older players cause we can't find any decent tank to do the damn job properly. And you know what? us pilots are actually good on it (PvE) wise, and some PvP wise *points at Lauren* and are needed so much. Idek why youre huffing and puffing over how its not needed when again, status quo ---- WE FUCKING NEED EM =P

BTW if anyone reads, LF: Good tanks

Lol ray, you call me dense yet you still don't seem to understand what am saying. It's SUPPOSED to take you 1001 years to kill a tank THAT'S WHY THEY ARE THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They dont need damage, silences, pulls or any other crap they NEED defense, HP and survivabilty. You shouldn't fear tanks for their kill potential, you should fear them for the amount of damage they can take from any source, they are supposed to be an annoying brick wall to all classes but they just aren't. They can be easily killed no matter how well you play them or what equips/cards you have because all classes constanly reduce their defense to near nothing. In a fight with other classes a tanks defense quickly become less then the enemys and thats just not right in my eyes, due to bleeds etc their HP doesn't mean anything as its drained faster than you can say "bye tank bye" and YES THEY ARE USEFUL IN PVE IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES SO FOR FUCK SAKE STOP SAYING I CALL THEM USELESS I SIMPLY STATED THAT THEY ARE NOT AS USEFUL AS THEY USED TO BE!!!!!!!!!!!

Data Data:
Sorcerer 35,xxx attack w/ PvP dmg 36%
vs
Templar Stat IV/V Stamina VI build w/ Prot Potion and 8% Abs Tarot

Normal Hits = 1.8k - 2k
Spell Cast w/o debuff = 2.7k - 4.2k
Spell Cast w/ exposure and tshock 3 debuff = 5.3k - 6k
ITD skills w/o debuff = 9k - 11k
ITD skills w/ exposure and tshock3 debuff = 15k++

On occasion that all debuffs hit and stays there for the time of ITD can it only hit 16-20k (assuming these chars have no more buffs due to depleting or is also ganked by someone else). Normal skills on average is 3k-4k and with full debuffs can only reach 5-6k. Again higher if ganked by other debuff classes. =3

*amused* There was a time where theres a load of tanks in BF *nod nod* This was when they received their major beef up a few months ago. Idk why you want tanks to be brick walls and stuff, they still have more defense than all of us; HPs can easily reach 150k with minor 85 gear, and 200k+ if built. >_> Thats x2/3 of us weaklings lol. The only classes tanks fear in pvp are DoT classes. And that, will not change from adding Def and Attack or anything to tanks since its a debuff skill. SOme of which are % based.

Meaning even if you have 1million HP, it will still render your HP low as fuck in a debuff hit. So, IDK, I would like the DoTs to be nerfed instead of tanks, who are still pretty solid, be beefed up more.

you've said yourself that you aren't built for pvp so you cant really test that theory can you? and the immaturity to accuse me of lying is a bit pathetic ray, why would I need to lie about something when it can easily be tested (with the correct equipment) my sorc can hit my own Templar when its full fooded and absorb tarot of 9% easily 10k + so I bet in your oh ill go test this cause im mr PRO did you even use pvp relic or pvp acc or pvp cloak? I doubt it were you fooded? I doubt that too since you only food for GTI or bosses. so next time you want to add an opinion and accuse me of being a lier go test it properly and come back with a brain k thanks

Matty, can you read my data post pls

I gave my data limitations. Hence, my attack was 35,xxx , and the pvp dmg was 36% added, if you want to have- details on that, I do have 4 pvp accessories, a relic and the cloak to use depending on situation for this test i only used 4 accessories and a cloak. Giving 36%. I just thought 35kattack is good for pretty built sorcerer, and the around 35% pvp damage was average to most people who have cloak and relic on. Also I gave the data with Lauren's templar's cards which is Stat IV and V plus Stamina VI with Tarot% buff and only prot pot on. Fooded or not (Food which affect attack anyway so its mentioned in my data), my major stat (Attack and % PvP dmg) was there and that is enough scope and limitation for my data gathering. Or did you ignore this?

=)) Debunking my gathering really? Kay. What is the claim of your 15-20k per hit of a sorc to your tanker. What is the stats of this sorc, the stats of the tank, are these all the skills? Are these only ITDs? Do you have other debuffers?

Im only giving a reality in the situation. Do not overestimate a class with only a few amounts of data and just assuming all Sorcerers and all Tanks can do this thing. We need to be real average. In fact if I honestly average all sorcerers in Iris who PvP and PvE, the average attack is still around 25k-28k fooded.

I usually refrain from posting in these types of threads since they have a tendency to end in childish name calling and attacking people who comment. In terms of pvp tanks (if correctly built) are not always easily killed or useless. I made a temp with full 85 bf armor and I generally have no problems surviving being ganged. I chose the bf armor for the sole purpose of the protection stat and it helps a lot. I rarely get crit now. I only have 1 85 bf ace, no v or vi char cards and mix of stat iv, all def v and a few power vi. I'm the first to admit that i'm extremely average when using my tank since it's not my preferred class and I don't tend to use it much, but I have no problems when I do go pvp.

I will admit that when compared to Champs, Temps are rather lacking in debuffs etc. One silence that I can think of with a 2m cd, One 2 sec stun, and a 1.5sec charge stun (which usually ends in me rubber banding anyway cos its broken).

Also in addition, maybe you are using 15% Relic, 20% Cloak, 5 Access 20% and 15% from weapon? All in all around 75% Pvp Damage added? Perhaps thats the case~ I am not sure everyone uses these everytime to pvp~ But yeah =P Data Data, dont go claimin I dunno what im doing when I stated research k. If you want to debunk me, go test with proper data scope. Im just helping to keep things in perspective to the avg user and to Sedy =D

with all due respect.. I am a newbie knight. with regards to 74 bf.. im pretty useless.. ~_~..well i guess as long as knights cann not do stun locks or whatever.. we are pretty useless in bf. since all bf maps recquires kill skill and not just tank.. well how can newbie tanks earn bfp with getting only 300 per round. that is just on my opinion.. please take note that i only have +30 sta cards and power and not with those OP items. for a newbie like me.. this is so deppressing..

But if you actually took the time to look at what some of their skills require or the timing you would see they do take skill. Gunner classes have no healing ability they have no shields or absorb buffs so if you used your brain you'd see they need to be able to kill quickly and it depends on their class that they Are fighting so don't just QQ like another person dos about their being no %based pots in bf . Cause as I said there I'll say here. If you wanna be a pussy and go to a deathmatch to spam hp pots then go to PI and play that there. Bf is meant to be fun and you get to kill your friends etc. but going in there knowing you can spam hp pots so you don't die is just boring and requires no skill and healers with %based pots in a small arena where teams can stick together no one used to die in 85 bf unless they got ganked hard. But now if you actually trap someone long enough they do die and you don't watch their hp go from 2% to 100 with using pots. Besides without pots it means you'd have to use skill unlike your attempt in your statement of spamming skills so they die . That is a skill called quick killing. If you know who your up against you learn ways to get around their skill. It's not hard to play the game or go to a DM and play without your noobass pots

Enjoy